Suggestions for a Rebuild of a 1969 Riviera

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carlazzomark
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Suggestions for a Rebuild of a 1969 Riviera

#1 Post by carlazzomark » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:28 pm

I am completely rebuilding a 1969 Riviera Cruiser model RA-26569C (26 1/2 foot pontoons, 22 foot deck, 8' beam). The cross members are, I believe, at 12" O.C.

I have a few questions:

1. The pontoons are only 20" in diameter. The boat was originally was classed at 60 hp max, and 2280 pounds for persons, motor and gear. I plan to use it on lakes that can get rough, so should I add a center pontoon, and if so, does it also need to be 20"? Of course, it can only go aft as far as the transom. What is the best bow position relative to the existing pontoons? I care more about stability and rough water handling than speed.

2. The current pontoons are in decent shape, but scaly and dirty. Is it worth it to have them glass bead blasted and then clear-coated?

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

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Re: Suggestions for a Rebuild of a 1969 Riviera

#2 Post by Bamaman » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:14 pm

We seldom see such an old aluminum pontoon boat as that was almost back when they were using steel drums for hulls.

Reconditioning your boat may almost be like putting good money after bad. You can fix the seats, put new plywood and carpet, but adding a 3rd pontoon is out of the question as no company makes such small tubes. And when it's over, you have a boat that's not modern looking.

I would be hesitant to put a 20" diameter pontoon boat out on a big lake in large waves, as they're just not very seaworthy with their small horsepower motors. You're dealing with the responsibility of other peoples' lives with these boats, and safety is of the utmost importance.

My Starcraft 24' pontoon boat is modern in comparison, but I bought it in 1985--28 years ago. Despite its good condition, I would be hesitant to sink too much into it. Such a boat could be bought for $1500-2000 without trailer or motor. A boat of its vintage would be a much better place to start.
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Bamby
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Re: Suggestions for a Rebuild of a 1969 Riviera

#3 Post by Bamby » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:45 am

Man was that was "Brutal" :punchballs Anybody else also care to take a swing at him?
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Re: Suggestions for a Rebuild of a 1969 Riviera

#4 Post by margaritaman » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:32 am

If you can find a real good deal on a used pontoon I would add it if you are keeping the boat for a while. The third toon can be shorter and have a slightly larger diameter than 20". Some new toons are being built that way. Good luck on your project.
Cruising the salt waters of East Florida.

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Re: Suggestions for a Rebuild of a 1969 Riviera

#5 Post by Rascal » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:16 am

Bamby wrote:Man was that was "Brutal" :punchballs Anybody else also care to take a swing at him?
I think (IMHO) that Bamaman was really just trying to be honest with this new new single poster and slap some sense into him. It takes guts to be honest in this lovey dovey not offend anybody world. He's doing the dude a favor. If the OP is head strong like many (me) of us. He will ignore this good advice and go forward throwing mucho dollars into his money hole in the water, and live to regret it.

If he was REALLY looking for good advice and not just confirmation of his project..... he got that good advice.

As I said before, IMHO.

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Mrtoler
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Re: Suggestions for a Rebuild of a 1969 Riviera

#6 Post by Mrtoler » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:01 am

If you ar serious and you want to breath new life into your boat there is a few companies that sell new tubes of all sizes. You could get a center tube with motor mount and fuel tank for around $2,000. This would just need to be bolted on to your boat and simply hang your engine on the new transom, this would drastically help your boat. But if you not wanting to attempt all that you could sell your current toon an buy a lil newer one! It's all in what you want to do!
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carlazzomark
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Re: Suggestions for a Rebuild of a 1969 Riviera

#7 Post by carlazzomark » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:24 pm

Thanks folks for the advice and cautions.

I will, of course, go forward. I have budgeted the entire re-build, and it will be well under $10,000, it will be exactly as I want (and unlike any pontoon boat out there), and I will have the satisfaction of learning while I do this.

I realized that I already have some rotomolded catamaran hulls that I can repurpose as center toons, and they are exactly the same height as the existing aluminum tubes. So no added expense to add 1440 pounds displacement.

As someone who owns or has owned a 1849 farmhouse, two 1924 cabooses, classic cars, and a 1932 wood boat, I enjoy resurrecting and maintaining old things. It is tons of work and lots of money, but there is satisfaction in trying, and even more so if successful.

And if I am successful, I will post pictures of the boat on Lake Lugano, Italy/Switzerland, this summer, and let you know the total cost of the project. You can then judge if I wasted effort and money, or not.

Regards,

Mark

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Re: Suggestions for a Rebuild of a 1969 Riviera

#8 Post by curtiscapk » Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:11 am

Italy!!!! Awesome! Welcome aboard from across the big blue!!!!
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RonKMiller
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Re: Suggestions for a Rebuild of a 1969 Riviera

#9 Post by RonKMiller » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:39 am

I can appreciate the love of rebuilding things too - I favor old motorcycles and of course have resurrected a 1987 Party Barge into my "trailer on a toon" project that took a year of pretty much full time work - and about $10K as well...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6473

I don't know the economies of rebuilding your toon in Europe - but I can imagine that it would easily be double the cost of one re-done in the USA just due to shipping costs alone. I would think that your $10K budget might go a lot further into finding a much more robust and newer model to start with.

Speaking from my own experience I think you'll be really disappointed in how well 20" logs can handle rough water. Mine originally started out with 2, 28 ft. X 21" logs and one 19 ft. by 21" center log. They were barely adequate as I had them loaded to the max. I ended up replacing the middle log with a 25 ft. by 24" log and it helped DRAMATICALLY. However, my boat is still not practical for any rough water. As soon as even the smallest whitecaps form they slam the bottom of the boat pretty hard.

The issue here - obviously - is clearance. Assuming you load your boat to max or near max (and we ALL do) you'll only have 10" of clearance... that's not much. Where I boat in Arizona lakes flat water is the rule 99% of the time. When we have thunderstorms or wind you stay ashore since they tend to be extreme and quite frankly very dangerous.

My advice? If you are dead serious about a rebuild I would put my first money into new and larger logs - period. The very real possibility that the old logs are WAY beyond service life would be a huge safety concern of mine. ESPECIALLY if you go into rough water. Corrosion and time will have weakened the metal to a significant degree. You can glass bead and clear coat them - and they may LOOK great, but in reality this will do nothing - and most likely further weaken them.

As we say, "putting lipstick on a pig." :biggrin2

carlazzomark
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Re: Suggestions for a Rebuild of a 1969 Riviera

#10 Post by carlazzomark » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:08 am

Ron,

Thank you for your well thought out and specific recommendations. I will give them serious consideration.

To clarify some things, I will be rebuilding here in the States and shipping to Italy. I will get CE certification here. Much cheaper all around when I run the numbers. There are only a few pontoon boats in Europe, and new or used, they are really expensive.

As for load, I plan for a maximum of eight people. At an average weight of 170 pounds, that comes to 1360 pounds. I also plan to use only a 40 hp four stroke, at about 260 pounds. So total capacity should not be a problem.

As for longevity of the older toons, I plan on using the boat only four or five years, and then selling off the parts.

Clearance could be a problem on a rough day, though I rarely go out in those conditions. I need to finish my spreadsheet for total weight of all components and then estimate the waterline fully loaded. I would assume that two 24" logs on a normal pontoon boat fully loaded would have about 12-14" clearance (perhaps you could confirm that for me). Therefore, if I can get my fully loaded 20" toons to be submerged only 8 inches, I will have a near equal clearance of 12".

Please let me know if you find fault in my assumptions or reasoning. I don't start the rebuild for a month, so there is still time for me to change my mind.

Thanks,

Mark




RonKMiller wrote:I can appreciate the love of rebuilding things too - I favor old motorcycles and of course have resurrected a 1987 Party Barge into my "trailer on a toon" project that took a year of pretty much full time work - and about $10K as well...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6473

I don't know the economies of rebuilding your toon in Europe - but I can imagine that it would easily be double the cost of one re-done in the USA just due to shipping costs alone. I would think that your $10K budget might go a lot further into finding a much more robust and newer model to start with.

Speaking from my own experience I think you'll be really disappointed in how well 20" logs can handle rough water. Mine originally started out with 2, 28 ft. X 21" logs and one 19 ft. by 21" center log. They were barely adequate as I had them loaded to the max. I ended up replacing the middle log with a 25 ft. by 24" log and it helped DRAMATICALLY. However, my boat is still not practical for any rough water. As soon as even the smallest whitecaps form they slam the bottom of the boat pretty hard.

The issue here - obviously - is clearance. Assuming you load your boat to max or near max (and we ALL do) you'll only have 10" of clearance... that's not much. Where I boat in Arizona lakes flat water is the rule 99% of the time. When we have thunderstorms or wind you stay ashore since they tend to be extreme and quite frankly very dangerous.

My advice? If you are dead serious about a rebuild I would put my first money into new and larger logs - period. The very real possibility that the old logs are WAY beyond service life would be a huge safety concern of mine. ESPECIALLY if you go into rough water. Corrosion and time will have weakened the metal to a significant degree. You can glass bead and clear coat them - and they may LOOK great, but in reality this will do nothing - and most likely further weaken them.

As we say, "putting lipstick on a pig." :biggrin2

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Re: Suggestions for a Rebuild of a 1969 Riviera

#11 Post by Bamaman » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:14 pm

Mark: I was just being honest.

If you are close to North Alabama, I'd say come and buy my 1985 Starcraft that I retired last year. The Yamaha 115 hp lower unit wore out but the engine should still be good.

If the boat's heading for Lake Como or Lake Lugano, I can certainly understand why you'd want a 40 hp motor. When I was over there last year, gasoline was $9.51 per gallon equivalent. (One of my best friends lives in Lugano.) The Italy/Swiss border lakes are simply some of the most magnificent mountain vistas in the world.
'12 Bennington 24' SSLX Yamaha 150

RonKMiller
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Re: Suggestions for a Rebuild of a 1969 Riviera

#12 Post by RonKMiller » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:12 am

carlazzomark wrote:Ron,

Thank you for your well thought out and specific recommendations. I will give them serious consideration.

To clarify some things, I will be rebuilding here in the States and shipping to Italy. I will get CE certification here. Much cheaper all around when I run the numbers. There are only a few pontoon boats in Europe, and new or used, they are really expensive.

As for load, I plan for a maximum of eight people. At an average weight of 170 pounds, that comes to 1360 pounds. I also plan to use only a 40 hp four stroke, at about 260 pounds. So total capacity should not be a problem.

As for longevity of the older toons, I plan on using the boat only four or five years, and then selling off the parts.

Clearance could be a problem on a rough day, though I rarely go out in those conditions. I need to finish my spreadsheet for total weight of all components and then estimate the waterline fully loaded. I would assume that two 24" logs on a normal pontoon boat fully loaded would have about 12-14" clearance (perhaps you could confirm that for me). Therefore, if I can get my fully loaded 20" toons to be submerged only 8 inches, I will have a near equal clearance of 12".

Please let me know if you find fault in my assumptions or reasoning. I don't start the rebuild for a month, so there is still time for me to change my mind.

Thanks,

Mark




RonKMiller wrote:I can appreciate the love of rebuilding things too - I favor old motorcycles and of course have resurrected a 1987 Party Barge into my "trailer on a toon" project that took a year of pretty much full time work - and about $10K as well...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6473

I don't know the economies of rebuilding your toon in Europe - but I can imagine that it would easily be double the cost of one re-done in the USA just due to shipping costs alone. I would think that your $10K budget might go a lot further into finding a much more robust and newer model to start with.

Speaking from my own experience I think you'll be really disappointed in how well 20" logs can handle rough water. Mine originally started out with 2, 28 ft. X 21" logs and one 19 ft. by 21" center log. They were barely adequate as I had them loaded to the max. I ended up replacing the middle log with a 25 ft. by 24" log and it helped DRAMATICALLY. However, my boat is still not practical for any rough water. As soon as even the smallest whitecaps form they slam the bottom of the boat pretty hard.

The issue here - obviously - is clearance. Assuming you load your boat to max or near max (and we ALL do) you'll only have 10" of clearance... that's not much. Where I boat in Arizona lakes flat water is the rule 99% of the time. When we have thunderstorms or wind you stay ashore since they tend to be extreme and quite frankly very dangerous.

My advice? If you are dead serious about a rebuild I would put my first money into new and larger logs - period. The very real possibility that the old logs are WAY beyond service life would be a huge safety concern of mine. ESPECIALLY if you go into rough water. Corrosion and time will have weakened the metal to a significant degree. You can glass bead and clear coat them - and they may LOOK great, but in reality this will do nothing - and most likely further weaken them.

As we say, "putting lipstick on a pig." :biggrin2
I think you'll find the shipping costs to be insane... the issue is the size.

I also still don't think the time and effort to resurrect 45 year old 20" logs is worth the effort. You'll ever get them to look that good. If anything I would use soda blasting vs. glass beads. You'll end up with a matte finish. You've no doubt seen that a lot of guys have polished their logs to a mirror finish - but they're starting out with new metal that has been only barely etched. I don't believe clear coating is an option, but there are marine epoxy paints $$$$ available.

A few options for your consideration - just trying to think a bit "out of the box" here and provide alternative ways of fulfilling your dream:

1. Why not buy a pontoon kit, motor, furniture, etc., put it together here and test it - ship it in a container - and re-assemble it there? I would bet you could sell it in 5-6 years for what you paid for it, probably even make a profit.

http://usapontoon.com/Basic_Pontoon_Kit.php

http://www.u-fabboats.com/

2. You can buy "scratch and dent" larger diameter log pairs here for an excellent price:

http://greatlakesskipper.com/pontoon-bo ... ntoon-logs

3. Or why not buy a complete platform with just about everything you need minus a motor, helm and furniture - that has 24" logs - for $2895.00?: (You could also take this apart and re-assemble)

http://greatlakesskipper.com/custom-20- ... d-gas-tank

I would definitely sink some serious money into a NEW motor as well and probably choose either a fuel injected Yammy or Honda 4 stroke. I've got a 1988 two stroke Yammy 90hp on mine, but it stinks, is terrible on fuel economy and relatively loud. ...but it was also pretty much FREE. (I paid $2500.00 for my donor boat including the trailer) I think you'll do well on re-sale of this too... all depends on your budget of course.

and here's a chart to help you figure out buoyancy:

http://www.u-fabboats.com/brochure/weightcap.pdf

Good luck!

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