Propping Chart and information.

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MattGent
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Re: Propping Chart and information.

#16 Post by MattGent » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:57 am

I have a hand-held GPS, and I have a remote tach with an inductive pickup. But the 9.9 never ran up to WOT - it always had a miss, and would intermittently surge. Motor came for free on the salvaged boat so it was always an un-known.

Any comment on the reference data?

MattGent
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:27 am
Location: South FLA

Re: Propping Chart and information.

#17 Post by MattGent » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:28 pm

OK back to this topic as I'm about to buy an engine.

I've heard the same 10% +/- slip suggestion from many places, but best I can figure is that applies well to planning hulls, but not to displacing or semi-planing ones like a pontoon. For these boats the thrust vs. speed regime is pretty different.

I like the suggestion above about the forum community building a matrix of operating points. As long as everyone can be accurate (using gps, estimating weight, low wind or current). I've tried to piece some of that together from the publicly available test data, see the charts below. I assume all of the OEM data to be accurate, other than weights, which are stated as estimates (and known to vary wildly in the industry).

A sample data set for an 18 Tuscany and Yamaha T25 high thrust 4 stroke:
Image
I calculated the slip from the provided rpm, speed, and gph data.


Here is the same data as a corresponding chart (all but slip use left side axis; slip uses right)
Image

A summary from a handful of boats in the same size/weight/power class, with top speed and slip:
Image

Speed vs. slip on a chart:
Image

And for reference, MPG plotted against speed for all of those boats:
Image
Last edited by MattGent on Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

MattGent
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:27 am
Location: South FLA

Re: Propping Chart and information.

#18 Post by MattGent » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:38 pm

I would think the OEM engineers and techs who put together these performance bulletins want to display the best performance for their product, so I think the data is representative.

My takeaway is that targeting 25% slip for a semi-planing pontoon is more realistic than 5-15%. The relatively underpowered boats for their size were even worse. I suspect as the boats get a bit faster (lifting strakes, more power) that they will act more like a planing hull and the top speed slip will come down.

I'm going to guess that my boat will run 16-17mph with a Suzuki 25 or 30, which has a 2.09 gear ratio. This looks like it would work with an 8" prop, right to the top of the RPM range when unloaded.

MattGent
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Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:27 am
Location: South FLA

Re: Propping Chart and information.

#19 Post by MattGent » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:42 pm

And the raw data in case anyone wants to do something with it (sorry formatting was lost):

18 tuscany / T25 2300lb 2.42 9
RPM MPH GPH MPG SLIP
1000 1.6 0.2 8 55%
1500 2.9 0.3 9.67 45%
2000 3.9 0.5 7.8 45%
2500 5 0.7 7.14 43%
3000 6.6 0.8 8.25 38%
3500 7.2 1.1 6.55 42%
4000 8.5 1.5 5.67 40%
4500 10.7 1.8 5.94 32%
5000 13 2.1 6.19 26%
5350 14.5 2.6 5.58 23%

20 bennington F25 2300lb 2.08 9
RPM MPH GPH MPG SLIP
1000 1.8 0.2 9 56%
1500 2.6 0.3 8.67 58%
2000 3.5 0.5 7 57%
2500 4.5 0.7 6.43 56%
3000 5.4 0.8 6.75 56%
3500 6.7 1 6.7 53%
4000 7.4 1.4 5.29 55%
4500 8.7 1.8 4.83 53%
5000 11.2 2 5.6 45%
5500 13.4 2.3 5.83 41%
5800 14.5 3 4.83 39%

22 Bennington T60 2700lb 2.33 11
RPM MPH GPH MPG SLIP
1000 2.6 0.3 8.67 42%
1500 3.8 0.6 6.33 43%
2000 5.3 0.9 5.89 41%
2500 6.5 1.1 5.91 42%
3000 7.9 1.5 5.27 41%
3500 10.2 1.8 5.67 35%
4000 12.9 2.3 5.61 28%
4500 15.2 2.9 5.24 24%
5000 17.4 3.7 4.7 22%

16 G3 F40 1900lb 2 9
RPM MPH GPH MPG SLIP
1000 2.7 0.2 13.5 37%
1500 4.2 0.4 10.5 34%
2000 5.1 0.5 10.2 40%
2500 6.5 0.7 9.29 39%
3000 7.3 1 7.3 43%
3500 9.4 1.3 7.23 37%
4000 12.3 1.5 8.2 28%
4500 14.8 2 7.4 23%
5000 17 2.5 6.8 20%

Montego 16 / etec 25 2000 2.15 7
RPM MPH GPH MPG SLIP
750 1.1 0.08 13.8 52%
1000 1.5 0.12 12.5 51%
1500 2.5 0.2 12.5 46%
2000 3.2 0.23 13.9 48%
2500 3.8 0.35 10.9 51%
3000 4.7 0.57 8.2 49%
3500 5.2 0.76 6.8 52%
4000 6.2 1.15 5.4 50%
4500 6.6 1.5 4.4 52%
5000 7 1.89 3.7 55%
5500 8.6 1.95 4.4 49%
5900 10.7 2.32 4.6 41%

Premier 17 / Etec 30 1500 2.15 9
RPM MPH GPH MPG SLIP
600 1.3 0.07 18.6 45%
1000 1.9 0.1 19.0 52%
1500 2.7 0.16 16.9 55%
2000 3.9 0.23 17.0 51%
2500 5.2 0.43 12.1 48%
3000 6.6 0.61 10.8 45%
3500 7.3 0.86 8.5 47%
4000 9.3 1.29 7.2 41%
4500 12.1 1.58 7.7 32%
5000 14.3 1.86 7.7 28%
5500 16.2 2.25 7.2 26%
5900 17.1 2.62 6.5 27%

Misty H 17 / etec 40 1600 2.9 13
RPM MPH GPH MPG SLIP
850 1.9 0.1 18.5 47%
1000 2.4 0.1 23.5 43%
1500 3.5 0.3 14.0 45%
2000 4.7 0.5 9.4 45%
2500 5.9 0.55 10.7 44%
3000 7.3 1.1 6.6 43%
3500 8.8 1.5 5.9 41%
4000 11.3 1.8 6.3 33%
4500 13.9 2.4 5.8 27%
5000 16 2.75 5.8 25%
5500 17.7 3.6 4.9 24%
5750 17.9 3.9 4.6 27%

Bryden24shp
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Re: Propping Chart and information.

#20 Post by Bryden24shp » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:32 am

Wow, you have really been busy! That's a lot of data! I'm sure it will help out a lot of people looking to start propping!
Thanks for the hard work! I wish we had some way to chart what a lot of us are running, Brand, pitch and diameter to make it easier. Its hard to go out and buy props until you find the perfect one. I'm up to 5 props now, for the Premmie. Bought another off Ebay 2 weeks ago, a custom cupped 18 Enertia, for $125! This spring I need to run them all consecutively and do some data gathering. I'm getting pretty good at deep water prop swaps!
Currently taking a break from boating after 35 years of being wet!
Members, visit your discount page at:
http://www.ezfender.com/PontoonForums-M ... -Page.html

MattGent
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Re: Propping Chart and information.

#21 Post by MattGent » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:33 pm

I have the boat up and running now.

The Suzuki 30 came packaged with a 12" pitch aluminum prop. This was way over-propped for my rig. Unfortunately the selection of props for this engine is pretty small. I ended up buying a Solas 9" pitch aluminum to try. It isn't perfect, but pretty good. Here's my results

5700rpm (rated max is 6300)
17mph
27% slip

I don't have a fuel flow meter, and I can't seem to find any DF30 WOT data online, so I can't lay the mpg data for my boat on top of the reference info. It likes to cruise in the 13-14mph range. The performance is near identical to the Premier 17 / ETEC30 combo.

If a quality 8" pitch prop was available, that would be perfect.

TDJ2591
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Re: Propping Chart and information.

#22 Post by TDJ2591 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:30 am

The clubbennington site ues the following format for members to post individual prop & performance specs. I just copied one random liisting. Something like this format might be helpful to our members. Start a new thread perhaps?


Boat Model --------- Bennington 2275 RL
Model Year --------- 2007
Tube Option -------- 3 Logs with Lifting Strakes
Power Option ----- Honda 150hp
Prop Specs ---------- Enertia 15X15p
Performance ------ 38.9mph @ 6000rpm
EXTRA NOTES: Speed test done with full 36 gallon tank.
[color=#4000FF]2005 Crest Caribbean 25'
2006 Honda 135hp 4 stroke[/color]

Bryden24shp
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Re: Propping Chart and information.

#23 Post by Bryden24shp » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:39 am

I think we could do that!
Currently taking a break from boating after 35 years of being wet!
Members, visit your discount page at:
http://www.ezfender.com/PontoonForums-M ... -Page.html

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mzodarg
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Re: Propping Chart and information.

#24 Post by mzodarg » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:29 am

I'm new to the pontoon world, just wanted to know if what I'm experiencing is normal.

With trim all the way down boat will run 28 MPH GPS (loaded for fishing with three adults and bothlive wells full and 30 gallons of gas) 4000 rpms at WOT. If I tilt up a schosh it will wash out and quickly approach 5700 rpms.

toon and motor are listed in signature. Any suggestions, is this normal, would I benefit with another prop, etc....?

TIA,
Mike
[color=#0000FF]2015 Sun Tracker 22' DLX Fishn Barge-Schwintek power Bimini-Merc Eco Monitor
2015 Mercury 90hp (Simon Motorsports tuned )Command Thrust FourStroke[b] not worth the coin

[/color]

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teecro
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Re: Propping Chart and information.

#25 Post by teecro » Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:06 am

mzodarg wrote:I'm new to the pontoon world, just wanted to know if what I'm experiencing is normal.

With trim all the way down boat will run 28 MPH GPS (loaded for fishing with three adults and both live wells full and 30 gallons of gas) 4000 rpms at WOT. If I tilt up a schosh it will wash out and quickly approach 5700 rpms.

toon and motor are listed in signature. Any suggestions, is this normal, would I benefit with another prop, etc....?

TIA,
Mike
How does the boat perform with a lighter load? Do you get more RPM and speed as well? Are you able to take advantage of any trim with a lighter load on board? While 28 with the load you are bearing does not sound bad at all as the full live wells likely add a substantial amount of weight. If you are barely able to trim up without blowing out the prop that is a sign of too much pitch but I don't think we can give a good answer till we know what your lighter weight performance is. I know my boat is slightly underpowered and when I've got 2 people in front the trim is not able to pick up the bow much at all before it starts showing signs of blow out.
T CRO
2017 Berkshire CTS 24 RFX with Yamaha F150
2015 Caravelle 16 EBo with Mercury 90

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mzodarg
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Re: Propping Chart and information.

#26 Post by mzodarg » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:06 am

T cro -

I do get more rpms 4800 with a lighter load (34 MPH actually) and I am able to trim up a little further, but not by much before prop blow out. by lighter I mean two people, live wells empty. Still have 30+ gallons of fuel and a 25qt Pelican pro gear cooler with adult beverages in front of the console.

Mike
[color=#0000FF]2015 Sun Tracker 22' DLX Fishn Barge-Schwintek power Bimini-Merc Eco Monitor
2015 Mercury 90hp (Simon Motorsports tuned )Command Thrust FourStroke[b] not worth the coin

[/color]

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teecro
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Re: Propping Chart and information.

#27 Post by teecro » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:07 pm

mzodarg wrote:T cro -

I do get more rpms 4800 with a lighter load (34 MPH actually) and I am able to trim up a little further, but not by much before prop blow out. by lighter I mean two people, live wells empty. Still have 30+ gallons of fuel and a 25qt Pelican pro gear cooler with adult beverages in front of the console.

Mike
While your overall speed sounds fairly good to me it does sound as though you could be over propped somewhat as with a light load (1 person and half tank fuel) you should be able to get fairly close to max RPM at WOT to which your max RPM is likely 6K (?) RPM... Your Mercury likely has a 3 blade Black Max alum blade on the hub of the prop you will find a part number stamped into it. Find that number and Google it to learn your dia and pitch. You can then do some research either on the Mercury website or any number of other prop calc pages; you will find one at the front of this thread. If you want to increase your RPM you can drop an inch in pitch and see how the boat now performs. This is the sad costly part as experimenting with props is costly....

As an aside I'd also look at where your motor is mounted to the transom to see if it can be raised or lowered any number of holes; boats that have early blow out sometimes have their motors mounted too high up. While your underway at WOT where is your anti-cav plate? Its the large horz fin just above and over your prop. It should be just at water level...
T CRO
2017 Berkshire CTS 24 RFX with Yamaha F150
2015 Caravelle 16 EBo with Mercury 90

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mzodarg
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Re: Propping Chart and information.

#28 Post by mzodarg » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:49 am

While your overall speed sounds fairly good to me it does sound as though you could be over propped somewhat as with a light load (1 person and half tank fuel) you should be able to get fairly close to max RPM at WOT to which your max RPM is likely 6K (?) RPM... Your Mercury likely has a 3 blade Black Max alum blade on the hub of the prop you will find a part number stamped into it. Find that number and Google it to learn your dia and pitch. You can then do some research either on the Mercury website or any number of other prop calc pages; you will find one at the front of this thread. If you want to increase your RPM you can drop an inch in pitch and see how the boat now performs. This is the sad costly part as experimenting with props is costly....

As an aside I'd also look at where your motor is mounted to the transom to see if it can be raised or lowered any number of holes; boats that have early blow out sometimes have their motors mounted too high up. While your underway at WOT where is your anti-cav plate? Its the large horz fin just above and over your prop. It should be just at water level
I'll have to take a look at what prop is on the boat now. I will also look at how the motor is mounted and the WOT anti cav plate.

Again, all this may be normal. As stated earlier I'm new to the pontoon world, I do know that I can't tilt anywhere close to what I could with my bass boat. In fact on my tilt/trim gauge, I might be one or two marks from the fully down when I experience prop blow out.

Thanks for your insights,
Mike
[color=#0000FF]2015 Sun Tracker 22' DLX Fishn Barge-Schwintek power Bimini-Merc Eco Monitor
2015 Mercury 90hp (Simon Motorsports tuned )Command Thrust FourStroke[b] not worth the coin

[/color]

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teecro
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Re: Propping Chart and information.

#29 Post by teecro » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:09 am

Your welcome Mike, I'm not overly well versed in toons at all either; only in for a year myself... In my opinion your speeds don't sound bad as toons are not speedsters but if accurate your WOT RPM is far from max so you may have some missing performance and/or speed. And your quite right that the trim is vastly different between toons and planing hulls; the max I can trim my motor is 1/4 on the gauge which makes more difference in steering effort and bow rise than it does in speed.....
T CRO
2017 Berkshire CTS 24 RFX with Yamaha F150
2015 Caravelle 16 EBo with Mercury 90

jdhacker
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Re: Propping Chart and information.

#30 Post by jdhacker » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:07 pm

Hello all I have looked on here for a good while. Lot of good info on here, and as usual new pontoon owner asking for help. I have had a bass boat for a long time. And know very little about pontoons. About three weeks ago I bought a 1992 25 ft crest, one owner and garage kelp. And feel like I got a great deal. The motor is a 70 hp Johnson with 14 hr on complete rebuild. The prop is a 14x11 and with 7 people on the boat I GPS it at 19 mph at 6000 RPM. But the boat will at full power will hit 6200 trimed all the way down. If I trim it up it hit 6500 and did not lose speed. hit 21 mph. I know the max rpm is 6000. Do I need a new prop, or just keep it below 6000. I have not had the prop off, but it looks like 14 1/4x11 not sure. It did surprise me with how it ran.

edit wrong MPH
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