Another trailer bunk question - attachment

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yardbird
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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#16 Post by yardbird » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:53 am

[quote="JLester273"]I know I got us off topic here. But along with PontoonStuff I found this

http://www.restorepontoon.com/articles/ ... lywood.asp

I'll give them a call or email them too and see. It has me curious now. By the sound of it, there isn't an insulator other than at the cross members where there are edges coming together.[/quote]

Back to the bunks... but still on this whole treated wood subject....
I just talked to an old lumber guy. He said CCA was great stuff but phased out because of the arsenic. He said it worked better than the new stuff (ACQ and MCA) that replaced it, BUT... the new stuff has even MORE copper in it. How fast does it eat aluminum?
He said, "Remember the old thing about putting a tooth in a jar of cola? That fast."

So... my bunks are going to be untreated 2x4s. If they only last a couple or 3 years, then I'll consider it part of the cost of boat ownership.

Meanwhile.... this re-decking thing just bugs me, even though I'm not re-decking. So I'll keep scrounging around looking for info.

JLester273
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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#17 Post by JLester273 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:53 am

From Pontoonstuff

CCA treated will not corrode aluminum. It is only allowed to be used for roofing material and marine use. CCA treated is the same wood used by all pontoon manufacturers. Sorry I can not give you an exact reason for this because i;m not familiar with the exact chemical and treatment process but we have never seen or heard of our cca treated wood doing this.
Now in terms of trailer bunks it is recommend to use yellow pine because it absorbs very little water and this pretty standard in the marine industry for trailer bunks.


Wonder if the "CCA" is a bit different than what your referring to yardbird.
My rebuild thread.
http://www.pontoonforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24807

yardbird
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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#18 Post by yardbird » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:14 pm

[quote="JLester273"]From Pontoonstuff

CCA treated will not corrode aluminum. It is only allowed to be used for roofing material and marine use. CCA treated is the same wood used by all pontoon manufacturers. Sorry I can not give you an exact reason for this because i;m not familiar with the exact chemical and treatment process but we have never seen or heard of our cca treated wood doing this.
Now in terms of trailer bunks it is recommend to use yellow pine because it absorbs very little water and this pretty standard in the marine industry for trailer bunks.


Wonder if the "CCA" is a bit different than what your referring to yardbird.[/quote]

CCA is CCA

Chromated copper arsenate (CCA) is a wood preservative that has been used for timber treatment since the mid-1930s. It is a mix of chromium, copper and arsenic (as Copper(II) arsenate) formulated as oxides or salts, and is recognizable for the greenish tint it imparts to timber.

Read this:
Article

And this:
Corrosion article

And there are many others. They ALL state that CCA and other copper based treated wood should not come into direct contact with aluminum. That second article on corrosion seems to bear out something I thought of earlier and that is the use of ice and water shield as a barrier. Yes, the marine industry can still use CCA treated wood. But that still doesn't change the fact that CCA treated wood is corrosive to aluminum. The marine industry can use CCA treated wood for docks and all kinds of structures and it probably does a stellar job in that application. Use it for decking or flooring in a fiberglass boat. But that doesn't change the fact that it's corrosive to aluminum regardless of what boat manufacturers are using it.

I'm not going to say don't use it. Here's what I AM going to say...
I would buy some ice and water shield and cut it into strips at least wide enough to cover any surfaces that the plywood touches (stringers, edges, etc). Ice and water shield isn't that expensive and it's readily available at most places like Home Depot, Lowes, Menard's, wherever building supplies are sold. I wouldn't simply cover the entire underside of the plywood because if the wood gets wet, it will need exposed surface are in order to dry. I might even run a strip on the stringer and then a strip across the plywood. Not sure if that would even be necessary though.

This is WAY off the subject of bunks, but if I were re-decking.... right now... with what I'm learning... I'd use the ice and water shield as a barrier at the very least and consider it cheap insurance.

JLester273
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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#19 Post by JLester273 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:30 pm

I'm right there with you. I'm going to go with an insulator of some sort when I redo mine. They say it doesn't corrode it. But maybe it just retains less of the CCA treatment than the other forms due to the glues used etc. And therefore not as damaging over time. I'll probably just do like you said though and put down a thin barrier just for insurance.

I found this interesting. Like maybe it has less copper in it?

"CCA-treated plywood offers many specific advantages for restoring pontoon boats and for marine use in general. Other types of specially treated woods use compounds that destroy marine carpeting, rubber, and other metal hardware used on pontoon boats, but CCA-treated plywood uses more effective preservatives that do not react to these materials in adverse ways. CCA-treated wood is highly resistant to termites, algae, fungi and other forms of organic marine life. It is so resistant to organic life and the elements that it does not require the application of any additional wood treatments or coatings. Adding water repellent is unnecessary and redundant because CCA-treated wood is naturally water-resistant. CCA-treated wood is comparably strong for its weight. Indeed, it is so strong and resistant to the elements that most manufacturers offer lifetime warranties against warping and rotting."

Anyway back to re bunking.... LOL
My rebuild thread.
http://www.pontoonforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24807

yardbird
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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#20 Post by yardbird » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:11 pm

Yes....re-bunking...heheh
I'm going to order carpet from pontoonstuff I think. And replace one board that bowed. And keep the rest. The boat will be on the trailer from October 15th until we launch again in the spring. Then the trailer sits empty unless we decide to pull it to a lake. So.... it gets dunked twice for sure, then may or may not see water again all summer.

I think I'm just not gonna get too crazy at this point.

yardbird
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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#21 Post by yardbird » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:38 am

Just got back from my local building supply place. It was the ONLY place within 100 miles that was stocking the torque washers for carriage bolts (the carriage bolts are attaching the bunk boards to the brackets). We talked about treated lumber and I mentioned how the treated stuff attacks aluminum. I'm getting a LOT closer to just using a regular 2x4 and planning on replacing them when they get punky. The guy.... who I trust and have been dealing with for years... said he had a customer that wrapped a pressure treated 2x4 in aluminum. It took just 7 days to corrode the aluminum visibly showing through the outside.

Now..... my old (1990) boat has been on these pressure treated covered by carpet bunk boards for who knows how long. One of the 6 foot bunk boards is bowed pretty hard. Another one is a "maybe" for replacement. The only SYP 2x4s around here that I can find are treated. So maybe a regular 2x4 and give it a couple good coats of linseed oil (thinned to penetrate) to give it at least a fighting chance and then just cover it and see what we look like.

I'm thinking more and more about how covering with a plastic would simply remove all of this from the equation. But with 64 feet of bunk to cover.... that stuff is pricey for a boat I only paid $3200 for (boat, motor, and trailer, 6 life jackets (practically new), flares, oar, anchor, lines...everything)

Anyways... got the carpet coming, a couple bits for the trailer lighting I wanna replace, new carriage bolts and hardware.... I'll get there. I have a few weeks to get it done :)

JLester273
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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#22 Post by JLester273 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:54 pm

I'm still working on mine. I need to get mine boat off the trailer or lift one side at a time and get mine replaced. I intended to a few weeks ago but I ran into a snag at the marina. Some of my boards I got from PS were to long. To be fair the reason was because I didn't get custom lengths but just what they offered. So I knew they would be long. And of course I forgot a saw that day. so I couldn't trim the inch or two off to make everything fit. But I should have that covered next time.
My rebuild thread.
http://www.pontoonforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24807

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Drago
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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#23 Post by Drago » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:21 pm

Stainless and then stainless. 316 stainless is a different animal than most you find out there like 18-8 and some others. It is designed for salt water areas. Do some research. If you just want cheap, go with new carpet and galvanized hardware.
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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#24 Post by Retired OG » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:24 pm

Going on life experience alone, (not boat) what would be wrong with using an oil base paint for deck and bunk wood??? Then calking all bolt holes and seams? Along with "painting" on adhesive and carpeting??? I guess I'll find out because that's how I just re-decked my newly acquired Kayot.
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ROLAND
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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#25 Post by ROLAND » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:29 am

[quote="
I'm thinking more and more about how covering with a plastic would simply remove all of this from the equation. But with 64 feet of bunk to cover.... that stuff is pricey for a boat I only paid $3200 for (boat, motor, and trailer, 6 life jackets (practically new), flares, oar, anchor, lines...everything)

Anyways... got the carpet coming, a couple bits for the trailer lighting I wanna replace, new carriage bolts and hardware.... I'll get there. I have a few weeks to get it done :)[/quote]

Yardbird... I re-did my bunks earlier this year.. I used pressure treated 2x4's... I went with plastic glide on's and now after reading all of this, I'm not sure what to think. But I do know that in my situation it's pretty much a moot point since I did cover my bunks with plastic.. you are right, it can get a bit pricey, but it will be a long long time before you have to fool with it again.. I bought 4 glide on kits.. each kit does 16' of bunks.. so it took four of them to cover all four.. total price for the glide on's was right at 229.00 But with no carpet, I expect the 2x4 bunks will last longer since there is no water retention and of course with plastic I never have to worry about carpet wearing and tearing.
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yardbird
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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#26 Post by yardbird » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:40 am

[quote="ROLAND"][quote="
I'm thinking more and more about how covering with a plastic would simply remove all of this from the equation. But with 64 feet of bunk to cover.... that stuff is pricey for a boat I only paid $3200 for (boat, motor, and trailer, 6 life jackets (practically new), flares, oar, anchor, lines...everything)

Anyways... got the carpet coming, a couple bits for the trailer lighting I wanna replace, new carriage bolts and hardware.... I'll get there. I have a few weeks to get it done :)[/quote]

Yardbird... I re-did my bunks earlier this year.. I used pressure treated 2x4's... I went with plastic glide on's and now after reading all of this, I'm not sure what to think. But I do know that in my situation it's pretty much a moot point since I did cover my bunks with plastic.. you are right, it can get a bit pricey, but it will be a long long time before you have to fool with it again.. I bought 4 glide on kits.. each kit does 16' of bunks.. so it took four of them to cover all four.. total price for the glide on's was right at 229.00 But with no carpet, I expect the 2x4 bunks will last longer since there is no water retention and of course with plastic I never have to worry about carpet wearing and tearing.[/quote]

And the plastic glide ons would be re-usable wouldn't they? I mean if you found a punky 2x4, you could remove the plastic, swap out a 2x4, and reinstall the plastic?

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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#27 Post by CapeDave » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:39 am

What has not been mentioned is has anyone tried other woods?? Cedar, fir??

I know that fence company's can get me 2x4 in cedar not cheep but lite and durable??

I am thinking cedar covered with the plastic slides once and done??

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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#28 Post by taylorjm » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:47 am

I put this on another post. Cut the vinyl fence post covers in half, screwed them on the sides with stainless screws over treated 2x4's. $30 will cover 18' of bunks.
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ROLAND
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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#29 Post by ROLAND » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:07 am

[quote="yardbird"
And the plastic glide ons would be re-usable wouldn't they? I mean if you found a punky 2x4, you could remove the plastic, swap out a 2x4, and reinstall the plastic?[/quote]

Yes sir. Sure could.
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yardbird
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Re: Another trailer bunk question - attachment

#30 Post by yardbird » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:20 am

OK I just found THIS LINK to a pdf showing decay resistance of various species of common woods, untreated and exposed to weather.
Two test locations were used. Wisconsin, and southern Mississippi.

I guess I'm gonna be the guinea pig. I started removing the bunks and found the old pressure treated to be in worse shape than I thought.
I was GOING to replace one of the 6ft bunk boards. Now I think I'm just going to replace them all. So I need 4 at 10ft and 4 at 6ft.

I had thought about getting pressure treated and covering first with ice and water shield, but upon unrilling the ice and water shield I see the exposed side is extremely abrasive. If you wore through the carpet anywhere, you'd be grinding your toon's toons!

So... I think I'm going to just go get douglas fir if I can find it in 2x8 (because I've never seen doug fir 2x4s around here), rip them in half on the table saw, maybe paint them heavily with linseed oil to give them a fighting chance, then cover and install. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, then I just wasted $180 on carpeting :)

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