A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

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photonfanatic
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A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#1 Post by photonfanatic » Mon May 28, 2018 6:38 am

1. I have a 3 year old Yamaha 90hp on my Veranda brand 22' pontoon boat. This engine has maybe 30 hours on it. But this season I went to start it up, and it was a no go. It had not ran in 1.5 years. It ran fan last time we used the boat, so I'm thinking that maybe the gas went bad? But its fuel injected so how can I test that theory? I didn't want to use engine starting fluid if I didn't have to.

2. Anyone got any suggestions on a bit of vinyl color repair? You see those leather repair kits where it comes with some kind of... dye? Paint? My vinyl seat has a couple of spots on it that I'd like to stain back to the proper color. I was hoping someone around here had an idea for a somewhat quick repair. One that didn't involve recovering the seat.

3. Are all the little... consoles or cup holders at the front of these boats, basically the same shape? I'm going to order some new ones and I wanted to make sure that the ones that I order, end up fitting properly. They sit flush up against the inside of the fence, in the corners and will often have cup holders or some storage.

4. I'm looking for some tent pole stabilizers. The tent poles that hold up my boat cover, frequently come down which of course makes a great spot for water to gather when it rains. The wind buffets the cover, and the bottom of the tent pole moves enough for it to fall over. But if I had some kind of a base, perhaps that couldn't happen. And recommendations on a base that could sit there for 8 months and keep the tent poles from falling over? Preferably some kind of base that wouldn't end up leaving a stain on the carpet.
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steve1313
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Re: A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#2 Post by steve1313 » Wed May 30, 2018 4:03 am

To help support your cover, I'd go with this setup.
https://www.overtons.com/product/detail ... t&i=320446

As far as your motor not starting, give us some more details on what is happening. It cranks but won't turnover, does nothing, runs rough and dies??????????? Let us know. I can say that if your boat sat for that long and it didn't have any fuel stabilizer and especially if it was fuel with ethanol, your fuel probably separated. Your only hope is to pump out the existing fuel (SAFELY!), and then refill it with fresh fuel. You'll also want to change out the fuel filter/water separator.
Steve
"Serendipity" - 2017 Sweetwater 2286 WB Tritoon w/ 150HP Yamaha
Slipped at Lake Anna, Virginia
Primary Residence: Richmond, Virgina
Lake House: Lake Anna, Virginia

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FLOUNDERPOUNDER225
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Re: A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#3 Post by FLOUNDERPOUNDER225 » Wed May 30, 2018 7:18 am

Your engine has a VST (Vapor Separator Tank) which has an electric fuel pump and screen filter, if your engine sat with ethanol fuel for 1.5 years (as mentioned earlier) your in for some fuel system maintenance. The 4 strokes have a series of filters, first your water separator (if you have one) then the clear bowl filter on the engine, then the filter in the VST then a high pressure filter and finally there are small basket filters on each injector. Ethanol fuel that has separated is called phase separation, with water present it forms little crystals that are brownish in color, they will completely clog your fuel system and corrode components. unless your reasonably mechanically inclined you will probably wind up at the repair shop. even removing the old fuel from the tank does not remove the bad gas in the rest of the system. Not trying to ruin your day, but I have seen this many times, and owned a few Yamahas that were left like this by previous owners. Its not cheap, but an education seldom is.
Pensacola FL
2015 Berkshire 231 RFC
Yamaha F-150

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photonfanatic
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Re: A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#4 Post by photonfanatic » Wed May 30, 2018 12:27 pm

I'm pretty mechanically inclined, so I'll likely be doing the repairs myself. Let me take this opportunity to curse ethanol. Die ethanol, die. Now that that's over with, I can drain the fuel tank no problem. As for exactly what the engine is doing, it just sounds like a car that the engine is turning over, but it never will start. Can't think of a better way to describe it than that. I'd assume all the internals are moving as they're supposed to when the starter is working, but the fuel is bad so the engine simply can't start up and run.

I was also going to ask about seafoam. Is it possible that seafoam could help in this instance?

I took it to the dealership and they said they're 3 weeks out, and it would likely be a minimum of $600. So yeah I'm doing this myself. No way I'm paying that, not when I'm capable enough to work on it myself. Not unless I absolutely had to, that is. Is there a kit that would come with all the stuff I'd need to replace? Something that comes with the various fuel filters perhaps.

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steve1313
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Re: A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#5 Post by steve1313 » Thu May 31, 2018 2:13 am

Unfortunately SeaFoam, or any other additive can't magically make bad gas good again. Those additives can keep the gas from separating, but once the fuel deteriorates, it's too late for additives.
Steve
"Serendipity" - 2017 Sweetwater 2286 WB Tritoon w/ 150HP Yamaha
Slipped at Lake Anna, Virginia
Primary Residence: Richmond, Virgina
Lake House: Lake Anna, Virginia

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photonfanatic
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Re: A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#6 Post by photonfanatic » Thu May 31, 2018 5:33 am

Well I was thinking more along the lines of getting the engine going and cleaning it in case there were any of those crystal deposits people mentioned.

I ordered a fuel filter. Guess today I'll check that larger fuel/water separator filter. I'll get the model number and just order a new one. Is there anything else I should check, after I change those? Should I remove the VST (Vapor Separator Tank) and check it over? Maybe check the screen inside? Trying to figure out exactly what all I need to do. And yeah this is my education lol. From now on I'll use PRI-G instead of Stabil. Its supposed to be good for 4 years instead of 1.

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FLOUNDERPOUNDER225
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Re: A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#7 Post by FLOUNDERPOUNDER225 » Thu May 31, 2018 7:12 am

Contact Andy @ https://www.simyamaha.com/ they sell all the filters required for your engine, have the model and serial number ready, their prices are very good, I get all my annual maintenance kits from them. you will definitely have to open up your VST and remove/replace the filter screen. the picture is of a fuel pump inside the VST from a 4 stroke mercury, this is the same set up as the Yamaha; you see the top aluminum housing, that is the top of the VST tank you will remove the filter screen is attached to the bottom of the fuel pump. In this particular case you can see the extreme corrosion caused by the water logged ethanol fuel and the corrosion on the fuel pump. This pump was shot, and would not even run, and we had to replace it at the tune of $600. hopefully yours is not this bad, this boat sat for 4 years without ever being run.
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guy48065
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Re: A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#8 Post by guy48065 » Thu May 31, 2018 8:03 am

Vinyl color repair: I was doubtful that aerosol vinyl dye would last but a few years ago I changed the color of the seats in my off-road buggy from light grey to black. It turned out smooth & shiny like factory and survived water, mud, sun exposure and lots of hard riding without fading or transferring to my pants. I'm impressed.
http://www.vhtpaint.com/specialty/vht-vinyl-dye

Cover poles: Consider using camera tripods. I collected a couple, as well as a IV bottle stand, from local thrift stores for typically $5 ea. because I had the same problem with them falling over as the wind gusts lifted the cover. I never got the chance to try my idea since I bought a new/tighter/lower cover.
Mark
1996 Sweetwater 180EX + Johnson 40
Rush Lake, Atlanta, MI

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photonfanatic
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Re: A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#9 Post by photonfanatic » Thu May 31, 2018 8:42 am

Are these items that I point to in the pic below, what I need to replace? Well the one on the engine hopefully doesn't need replaced. Need to pull it off and clean out the screen I guess. But can I just pull that thing off of there? It looks fairly easy to get off. But will I need a gasket set in order to reinstall it? Also I'm looking for that water separator filter but I'm not seeing it. Maybe its in that thing by the battery?

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FLOUNDERPOUNDER225
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Re: A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#10 Post by FLOUNDERPOUNDER225 » Thu May 31, 2018 9:20 am

for clarification, this is a 2015 90 hp 4 stroke correct? not a 2 stroke? the arrow is pointing to the low pressure FUEL PUMP operated by engine vacuum/pressure, those are very simple to remove and open up to look and see if there is any contamination inside, most of the time the gasket can be re-used if your careful removing the pump from the block
Pensacola FL
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Re: A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#11 Post by FLOUNDERPOUNDER225 » Thu May 31, 2018 9:41 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj9IAvk1rWo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY2RFaahio4

take a look at these videos, first you don't clean out filters, replace them. that clear bowl on the engine has a filter in it, you'll see it demonstrated on the one video. replace that filter. the water separator filter will be on the boat, yes usually around the battery compartment area, that will be a can like filter, spin off, replace that. then watch the one video that explains how to drain the vst (vapor separator tank) catch that in a clear container, that will tell you all about what condition your fuel is in. Likely you will see a cloudy and clear layer after it settles. the problem is; if you have a strong degree of phase separation with the fuel, it is everywhere the fuel is present, all the way to the injectors. if your filters stopped the particulate contamination, from getting that far, then changing all the filters, the vst cleaning and screen replacement may get the engine running. then you can run a mixture of seafoam in the fuel tank to help clean things up but only after the engine is running correctly.
Pensacola FL
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photonfanatic
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Re: A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#12 Post by photonfanatic » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:47 am

Thanks! I'll watch those vids, I'm sure I can figure it out. All seems pretty simple. As for replacing filters I was talking about the metal screen that someone mentioned. Was thinking if that was clogged maybe it could just be cleaned. Also yes indeed the engine is a 90hp 2015 yahmaha model F90. 4 stroke.

To clarify, I don't see water separator filter, but I'll go look for it again. Resembles an oil filter I guess. So do you happen to know what that thing is, in the pic next to the battery?

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Re: A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#13 Post by FLOUNDERPOUNDER225 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:33 am

Thanks! I'll watch those vids, I'm sure I can figure it out. All seems pretty simple. As for replacing filters I was talking about the metal screen that someone mentioned. Was thinking if that was clogged maybe it could just be cleaned. Also yes indeed the engine is a 90hp 2015 yahmaha model F90. 4 stroke.

To clarify, I don't see water separator filter, but I'll go look for it again. Resembles an oil filter I guess. So do you happen to know what that thing is, in the pic next to the battery?


I don't know of any "metal screen" in your fuel system, ATTACHING some pics here, the water separator is the spin on filter, not all dealers install them, I would highly recommend installing one, doesn't have to be "Yamaha" sierra brand makes one, doesn't matter but it should be 10 micron filtration. next is the VST filter, it is a screen but no metal, its a round plastic device that attaches to the bottom of the electric fuel pump, you remove the top of the VST and the pump motor is attached to it, clean the bowl out, twist and remove the filter from the bottom of the pump motor and install the new filter, these filters ARE NOT cleanable, you may think its clean but it's not, especially after what is most likely very bad fuel in there. there is a small oring that goes around the top of the VST tank, sometimes a bitch to keep in the small groove while putting the VST back together, a very small amount of grease is a few locations around the perimeter of the groove will keep the oring in place while putting the top back on, it MUST NOT roll out of the groove or you will have fuel spilling out while running around in the boat. its a little tricky but patience works, also take the oring out of the package a day or so ahead, and place something on it to get it spread out, it comes all folded up in the packaging. and make sure you replace the clear bowl filter on the engine, all of this is available from SIM Yamaha, or your local dealer. when starting the engine after all this, first you will have to prime everything with the squeeze ball, your filling the VST tank, and on your spin on, if you get one, YOU MUST fill it with gas prior to spinning it on, this is just like priming a diesel fuel injection system.
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photonfanatic
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Re: A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#14 Post by photonfanatic » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:13 am

I'm sure I can get the fuel issue fixed, due to the aid of this thread. Thanks to all. I emailed the suggested yamaha store asking about a kit that would have everything I'd need to do a refresh of the system. Also I can fix the vinyl with that VHT (or similar like SEM) cause I found a color that does match my boat really well.

So I guess now I'll just talk more about the storage consoles by the corner of the fence. Like in the topmost pic. What are the odds that if I ordered some, they'd follow the same contour as my particular boat? Maybe it would just be "close enough"? And is anyone aware of a good seller of those things? Seems pontoonstuff is currently not selling them.

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Re: A few questions for this boating season (Engine trouble, vinyl repair)

#15 Post by photonfanatic » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:02 am

Also as an update, the fuel pump still works. Confirmed that.

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