old gasoline

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old jim
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old gasoline

#1 Post by old jim » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:52 pm

Is there any way to tell if the gas in the boat is bad??
I have about 15 gallons in the tank. It is about a year
year old at this time. Motor started up about a month
ago. But now no go. maybe could the starter. old jim

Oldchuck
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Re: old gasoline

#2 Post by Oldchuck » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:28 am

Jim,
I would be concerned with gas a year old. Some will say that they have had fuel for several years and it is fine however, with modern ethanol fuels and fuel injection it is not a good combination. Ethanol attracts water from the atmosphere and will add water in your fuel. I use only NON ethanol fuel and I have to transport it from a station to my house and siphon to my fuel tank but never had water in fuel issues. All that said, are you having any issues? I would try to pull some fuel from the tank and take a look at it but that will not mean water may not be in a part you did not siphon from. Are you running a good external fuel filter?
If so, I would change it and look at the fuel that came out to see if any debris or water is in it.

All fuel degrades over time and also will lose octane. Again, if the fuel is easy to get to I would siphon it out and change with fresh fuel. If you do not want to do that then I would definitely change the fuel filter and look at the fuel in it. If you do have debris in your fuel and have fuel injection then you can expect to have issues. Carbs will digest small amounts of debris better than injectors.. For the price of fuel, I would change it out and also all my fuel filters...

old jim
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Re: old gasoline

#3 Post by old jim » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:37 pm

Thanks, Chuck. regards, old jim

Oldchuck
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Re: old gasoline

#4 Post by Oldchuck » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:29 am

Jim,
I re-read your OP and missed the issue about it not starting.
No more to add but would definitely change the filters and fuel. Perhaps with new fuel it will start and clear whatever is in the fuel and injectors. As long as you have spark then it should start with new clean fuel... If not, you may have clogged injectors if you have them or if not then you may have debris in you carb bowl.
Let us know what you find out as it could help others... Also the year and type of engine and if you have an external fuel filter or just one on the engine.
Good Luck...

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Re: old gasoline

#5 Post by riplipper » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:35 am

I would pump out some of the old gas if possible, all of it if possible. Then dilute what is left with a LOT of new gas and stabilizer.
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FLOUNDERPOUNDER225
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Re: old gasoline

#6 Post by FLOUNDERPOUNDER225 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:14 am

if it is ethanol gas it is probably very bad, as stated we need to know your engine year and model, is it carbureted or fuel injected. take the fuel line off at the inlet of the filter, pump the bulb and get a good sample in a mason jar, let it sit for good while, look to see if there is any separation you will probably see a very clear substance near the bottom. if you have a 4 stroke fuel injected motor, you'll probably need some help, the VST pump is very prone to failure with severely contaminated fuel.
Attachments
vst pump.jpg
vst pump.jpg (234.98 KiB) Viewed 300 times
bad gas.png
bad gas.png (191.77 KiB) Viewed 300 times
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Oldchuck
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Re: old gasoline

#7 Post by Oldchuck » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:32 am

Flounder,
Good suggestions and the pics were great for anyone who may have bad fuel.

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Re: old gasoline

#8 Post by Oldchuck » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:38 am

After giving it some thought, doesn't the VST also have a filter that could be clogged? I know on many Yamaha's it does.
I imagine for many getting to the VST may be a real job and can't remember if you have to take the pump off to get to the filter..Would seem backward but then I do not design them and could be different on different engines.

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Re: old gasoline

#9 Post by Bamby » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:26 am

Motor started up about a month
ago. But now no go. maybe could the starter. old jim
I can't understand how to suggest a solution to such a vague description of a problem. How did everyone decide it was bad fuel? But then again why did the OP suggest it may be the starter? Is the motor failing to turn over at all? Or is it turning over slowly and failing to start? Which might suggest a failing or weak battery. Please be more precise in describing the problem and I'm sure someone here will get you pointed in the right direction.
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FLOUNDERPOUNDER225
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Re: old gasoline

#10 Post by FLOUNDERPOUNDER225 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:13 am

Bamby wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:26 am
Motor started up about a month
ago. But now no go. maybe could the starter. old jim
I can't understand how to suggest a solution to such a vague description of a problem. How did everyone decide it was bad fuel? But then again why did the OP suggest it may be the starter? Is the motor failing to turn over at all? Or is it turning over slowly and failing to start? Which might suggest a failing or weak battery. Please be more precise in describing the problem and I'm sure someone here will get you pointed in the right direction.
Good point, I suppose we all starting thinking fuel related because of the old fuel in the tank, I have seen them start up and run, the once the engine starts suckin sludge its all over. but definitely need to know turning over cranking or not.
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FLOUNDERPOUNDER225
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Re: old gasoline

#11 Post by FLOUNDERPOUNDER225 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:31 am

Oldchuck wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:38 am
After giving it some thought, doesn't the VST also have a filter that could be clogged? I know on many Yamaha's it does.
I imagine for many getting to the VST may be a real job and can't remember if you have to take the pump off to get to the filter..Would seem backward but then I do not design them and could be different on different engines.
For info on the VST; I have done both Merc and Yamaha, yes at the bottom of the pump which is inside the vapor separator tank (VST) there is a filter screen, usually if there is a quality 10 micron water separating filter (external filter mounted on the rear of the boat) and you use quality non ethanol gas, that filter is normally not a scheduled service item. both 2 stroke (Yamaha HPDI) and 4 stroke fuel injected motors have them. To get to the filter you must remove the tank (bottom half) and at the bottom of the pump there is a filter screen that attaches (in various ways) depending on the engine getting the VST "split open" is the tricky part, most you have to unbolt the tank from the powerhead and move it away a little bit to have enough room to lower the bottom tank half away from the assembly and have room to service the pump and filter screen. here are a few pics that show it assembled, and split. This particular VST pump was completely seized and inop due to the amount of corrosive water ethanol gas mixture that sat in the VST for over a year.
Attachments
vst pump.jpg
vst pump.jpg (234.98 KiB) Viewed 249 times
vst mercury.jpg
vst mercury.jpg (12.22 KiB) Viewed 249 times
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Oldchuck
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Re: old gasoline

#12 Post by Oldchuck » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:03 pm

Flounder,
Thanks for the in-depth explanation of the VST and filter.
I agree, the original OP needs to provide more info IF he still needs to address the issue.
Hopefully, the OP will provide more info as now I am curious as to the problem...

old jim
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Re: old gasoline

#13 Post by old jim » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:45 pm

My motor is a Merc 40 horse efi 03. I think my problem is the starter motor.
Don't know what else I can say. old jim

Oldchuck
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Re: old gasoline

#14 Post by Oldchuck » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:36 am

Jim,
This info should help those that are more mechanically inclined.
The info already posted about the fuel should address any "old fuel" issues. If it is a starter then it will not turn over. It may just do nothing or may click or grunt. I would first check the voltage on the battery to make sure there is enough to activate the starter. If the starter is original then it would not hurt to replace it if the battery is up to voltage of 12+ volts...The issue is IF it turns the engine over or not. If it is a starter it Will Not turn the engine over...
I am sure more folks will chime in as well...

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Re: old gasoline

#15 Post by toondog » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:25 pm

Here is an excellent video on servicing the VST.

https://youtu.be/eVdJ4BvRVYQ

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