What size kicker motor?

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mgarvie
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What size kicker motor?

#1 Post by mgarvie » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:51 pm

After reading the "What to use of outboard quits" thread, I got thinking about a kicker motor. But what would be the minimum size I would need?

I have 20 foot toon that I use on the Illinois River. I camp and fish about 12 miles downstream with conditions that range from below normal levels to near flood levels. Not caring about travel time, what would be the minimum horsepower needed to overcome the current?

boocat
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Re: What size kicker motor?

#2 Post by boocat » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:00 pm

Good question.

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Re: What size kicker motor?

#3 Post by boocat » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:04 pm

5-6 ?? But I would think that would be under most normal conditions. If you want to fight a flood coming back I think you should have checked the weather first.

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Re: What size kicker motor?

#4 Post by boocat » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:06 pm

whats the normal flow? need a hydrologist to answer that. eeewwww physics.

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mgarvie
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Re: What size kicker motor?

#5 Post by mgarvie » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:14 pm

That was my thought.....numbers yuck.

Even at near flood level the Illinois River isn't a raging torrent. But sooner or later, just like a car, I'm gonna turn that key and nothing will happen. But then again, if I get a small kicker motor the main motor will never fail me and the kicker will just grow old like me.

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zoom650
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Re: What size kicker motor?

#6 Post by zoom650 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:33 am

My experience with kickers is limited to 23' cruising sloops, but a Yamaha 6 got me out of a pretty sticky situation and into a protected cove when a tornado came ripping through the county.

The Yamaha 6 was stolen and I replaced it with a Mercury 9. Never got the chance to test the Merc in a moving current, but no difference in speed across a lake since it was pushing a displacement hull.

If I was going to consider one for my toon that would maneuver in a river current, I'd want at least 20, probably greater. I think I saw offshore boats in the gulf with 25-35.

Leaving dock on a flooded lake might be one thing, but I've canoed in a river in flood. I don't think you even want to consider that in a pontoon.
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Re: What size kicker motor?

#7 Post by riplipper » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:33 am

zoom650 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:33 am
Leaving dock on a flooded lake might be one thing, but I've canoed in a river in flood. I don't think you even want to consider that in a pontoon.
Agreed! Grew up fishing on a river and having a jon boat in current was tough, I cannot even imagine a toon.
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Re: What size kicker motor?

#8 Post by Oldchuck » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:19 am

I would look at hp vs weight. If you are going to take it on and off then I would get something you can handle. Also a sturdy mount is needed and you need to get the the prop down into the water. Many mounts like Garlick extend down either 9-15" which helps get the prop into the water for a good bite and are up out of the water when you do not need them and are very sturdy.
Remember you are pushing mainly a displacement hull in a pontoon so you do not need gobs of hp as you only need to move it a few mph.
I would think a 6 hp like the Yamaha on a boat up to 3,000 lbs would be sufficient and I don't see more than a 9.9. Some 9.9's come with electric start and alternators for charging. Some smaller motors come with a lower gear ratio and larger prop which is beneficial when pushing displacement hulls. On displacement hulls increasing the hp will not get you a lot more speed ( see bottom paragraph).
Also, on a river when fighting current remember the current runs at different speeds in the center compared to along the shore as well as around bends so you can help by staying in an area of more or less current dependent on whether you are going with it or against it..

With a 20' toon I would go out on a limb and say anywhere between a 6-9.9 would do the job dependent on current but you may find that the 6 would push it just as fast as the 9.9 as you would be reaching the maximum speed of the displacement of the pontoon. The max displacement speed of the pontoon may be something like 1.34 X the square root of the waterline length for max hull speed but this can vary a bit from hull to hull...Anything more that that and you are trying to push a bounder up a hill...Which is why you can add 40-50 hp to a pontoon and only get 5 more mph....

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mgarvie
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Re: What size kicker motor?

#9 Post by mgarvie » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:05 pm

I think "flood level" is the wrong way to describe it here. I'm just below a wicket dam on the Illinois River. Up river they keep the level at about 12 feet and the dam is about a 10 foot drop. If they get rain up river, they drop the wickets and our levels go up 10 feet in a day. The next week, they raise the wickets and our level goes back down 10 feet. If there's a drought up river, we're scraping on the bottom because they keep all the water up river. This cycle goes on all year long and the current is forever changing.

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Re: What size kicker motor?

#10 Post by Oldchuck » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:35 am

It is difficult to say exactly what will or will not work without knowing exactly what speed of current is present and how your individual vessel handles the drag of the current. The thing to remember is it does not take a lot of power to get the boat to hull speed however if you have an opposing current then you have to take that speed and subtract from hull speed. To get a vessel over hull speed it takes a lot of power. If your hull speed is say 5 mph a 6 hp will get you that easily but if you are fighting a 6 mph opposing current then you are standing still or making little forward progress. You will also have little steerage if you are going with the current but that is another story. You have to access what you will need given the currents you may face. The wind can also play an important role as pontoons have a lot of area in which to catch wind. Remember, any power you may have will be an advantage if your main power goes out and any steerage you have may keep you from harm.

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Bamby
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Re: What size kicker motor?

#11 Post by Bamby » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:57 am

mgarvie wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:51 pm
After reading the "What to use of outboard quits" thread, I got thinking about a kicker motor. But what would be the minimum size I would need?

I have 20 foot toon that I use on the Illinois River. I camp and fish about 12 miles downstream with conditions that range from below normal levels to near flood levels. Not caring about travel time, what would be the minimum horsepower needed to overcome the current?
A cell phone, honestly I can't imagine anyone boating anywhere any length of time failing to make any acquaintances on the water they couldn't rely on in a pinch. A person may have to wait it out for awhile but it's still the way I'd go.
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Oldchuck
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Re: What size kicker motor?

#12 Post by Oldchuck » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:21 am

Bamby,
Given that you boat where there are no hazards and it is in a place where friends can receive a cell signal and get to you then you are correct. However, there are still places where cell signals are not consistent and places were there are few boaters.
I agree, on most bodies of water where a pontoon would travel a cell phone would work to call a friend but there are places where that is not possible or prudent.
In tidal areas or areas of currents a vessel without power can be in a dangerous position without time to wait for a friend.
I boated for 20 years in Alaska and you Never saw a boat without twins or aux kicker power. That can be the case on the north west coast as well.
I realize that you would not take most pontoon boats out in these areas but boating safety remains with those who have been in dangerous situations and possibly saved by the use of aux power. Sometimes you have to depend on yourself..

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Bamby
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Re: What size kicker motor?

#13 Post by Bamby » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:52 am

You are really referring to unusual boating circumstances in this day and age. Yea we have plenty of boating hazards thats just one of the reasons I carry an anchor and a good length of rope. I can then set anchor and access my situation without the worry of being swept out further. I looked at the lake the op seems to be using and it appears underwater hazards are predominate and good at destroying props. I've changes a few of them on the water at anchor myself it's actually quite doable.

If the OP wants a mount and fool around jury rigging a kicker to his boat more power to him. But for me I'll categorize it along side the 350 HP wiz bang motor to get to the sandbar 3 minutes sooner. Or the biggest baddest motor ever installed in a pickup truck so a can run up a hill or two a few mile and hour faster than others. I my mind some things just don't return the value of the return for the investment involved.
Respect Our Recreational Resources
Leaving Only "The Footprints of Your Passing"

Boating the Muskingum River
1972 35' Crest Pontoon Houseboat
2007 90 hp. Yamaha

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