Gas - storing over winter

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ksks
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Gas - storing over winter

#1 Post by ksks » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:51 pm

I have a new Harris 210, 150 mercury.

Wondering what folks do to over winter gas.

I use premium non-ethanol and I put in Seafoam.

Do you store with gas tank full or near empty?

Drain the engine of gas?

Thanks,

ksks
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Liquid Asset
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Re: Gas - storing over winter

#2 Post by Liquid Asset » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:11 pm

Funny you mention this topic. I ran to our Bass pro service center today for everything I needed to get my boat ready for winter and had this discussion. I changed the oil, the lower unit oil, fuel filter ,bought fogging oil ( will do this over the weekend) and mentioned topping off the tank.
Like you I run rec fuel and treat it with an additive (water zorb) . They told me mercury used to recommend filling the tank full and a couple years ago started saying it's best to drain the tank. They said mercury is worried about the fuel deteriorating over the winter. I already filled my tank after our last outing and added marine stabil. With it full I avoid the chance of condensation in the tank. I would gladly drain it instead but with all the EPA crap on the tank I don't know how.

I had an issue with water in my fuel over the summer ( vessel view kept alerting me) and was always emptying the small separator on the verado. I wanted to vac the bottom of the tank but again with all the EPA stuff it's impossible to get anything down into the tank on my Tahoe. Only option I see is to separate one of the fittings from the plastic tank. I was warned by a mechanic friend not to mess with those . The water zorb additive solved my issues but I still don't know how to pump the tank out.
I'd be curious to know what obstacles Harris has mounted on your tank.
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Re: Gas - storing over winter

#3 Post by ROLAND » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:43 am

Kska... I suppose the "best" thing to do is to drain the remaining fuel.... I say " I suppose" because I've never done that. lol. Like you I run only ethanol free fuel, and I also use a fuel stabilizer with it. Normally at the end of the season I will take the boat out one last time and try to run out the majority of the fuel, leaving as little fuel in the tank as possible without the fear of running out on the way back to the launch. Normally on that last trip out I'll add a little extra stabilizer so that it gets thru the entire fuel system. Then next spring I filler up, add stabilizer and head to the lake. So far haven't had any issues.
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Re: Gas - storing over winter

#4 Post by steve1313 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:03 am

What's "best" and what's practical are sometimes two different things. If you're trying to eliminate the possibility of any fuel related issues and you drain/remove all the fuel, the problem goes away. But, in reality that's probably not practical and probably overkill. We're not talking about preparing your boat for years of non-use!

During the off season, I've always just filled my tank, added a container of fuel stabilizer, and called it a day. Never had a problem in 5 seasons. Most fuel related issues can be traced back to fuel with ethanol and since you're using non-ethanol fuel, you've already greatly reduced the chance of a problem. What you've done is fine. Don't give it a second thought. You'll be ready to go in the spring.


I do have another question though...…… Does your engine call for premium fuel? If not, you're just wasting money. It's not going to help with off season storage and it's highly doubtful it will help you performance wise during the season.
Last edited by steve1313 on Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gas - storing over winter

#5 Post by ksks » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:50 am

Thanks for the responses.

Steve, the engine doesn't require premium, but around here the only non ethanol is premium.

I'm not so much worried about the gas going bad. It'll be only 4 months or so. More concerned about condensation in the tank and gas left in/evaporating out of the engine.
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ksks
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Re: Gas - storing over winter

#6 Post by ksks » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:33 am

The Mercury site is confusing. Best I can figure they are saying is if your gas is untreated and over one month old, then drain it and replace with fresh, treated gas. Fill the tank with ethanol free, gas stabilized fuel. Let it sit over winter and use it next Spring.

Not clear if you need to drain the fuel from the engine if you use ethanol free and a stabilizer.

...

https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/doc ... e-inspired

Fill the fuel tank. Putting fresh fuel in the boat’s tank and treating it with marine fuel additives will help the fuel system sit idle until spring without any problems. If you leave the fuel untreated, some of its components inevitably will begin to oxidize and form a gum-like substance. In the spring, when you try to burn this fuel, it can leave deposits in your engine’s combustion chamber, and over time these deposits will build up and reduce the engine’s performance.

“Most of the issues our dealers run into are caused by stale fuel,” says Mercury Technical Service Department Team Leader Ryan Russell. “If the fuel in your tank is more than a month old, pump it out and replace it with fresh fuel.”

As you drain the fuel tank and line, also drain the fuel from your engine, keeping the spent fuel to discard properly (another possible reason to let a service shop do the winterizing for you). After draining the engine, replace the fuel filter so it will be clean and ready to go in the spring.

If possible, refill the tank with ethanol-free fuel such as REC-90, a premium blend formulated specifically for recreational engines. Due to the widespread controversy over the negative impact that ethanol-treated gasoline can have on marine engines, REC-90 is now available at more gas stations in the U.S. and Canada. Stop when the tank is about 95 percent full, because extreme temperature changes over the winter can cause the fuel to expand, potentially forcing gas out of the engine’s overflow vents.

Treat the fuel. “The best time to treat fuel is when you pump it into your tank, either during your last fill-up of the season or when you replace stale fuel during winterization,” Russell says. He recommends using the Mercury Fuel Care System, which includes Quickare, Quickleen and Quickstor, whether your engine was built by Mercury or another manufacturer. These products are engineered to work together to optimize fuel, remove any leftover deposits from the engine, and protect the fuel system over the winter months.
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Re: Gas - storing over winter

#7 Post by FogHorn » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:47 am

Sounds like the Mercury Method sells a lot of Mercury products.

The fuel producers refine their fuels for maximum storage life. Admittedly, that’s not forever, but the last thing they want is a bunch of stories of how their fuel causes problems. The fuel stabilizer folks are the same way and know their product best. The opinions that suggest fuel is stale after one month is only that... opinions. Tier One fuels are spec’d for 3 months (it’s why fuel is often termed “seasonal”) without additives of any kind. Stabilizers extend that in accordance with the additives label under the liability of the additive-producer. Follow directions. Do NOT overdose. Again, Follow the Stabilizers directions.

Forget about “over dosing” with additives. All that does is dilute your fuel, not preserve it. (Like bolts and nuts...just because tight is good does not mean tighter is better....eventually you will strip the bolt.)

Mercury suggesting that to fill the tank...but only to 95% to allow expansion...is B.S. The area above the level of fuel in a tank is termed “ullage”.
Ullage is atmosphere. Atmosphere expands during the day as temps warm up...and shrinks at night as things cool down. Each time the air leaves the tank it carries fuel vapors with it. Each time it cools down it sucks humid air back into the tank where it can conendense on tank walls just like the condensation on your highball glass. The atmospheric ullage expands/contracts at a much greater rate than does liquid fuel. The vent system of your fuel tank is designed to accommodate fuel expansion...leave the vent system OPEN....it does not need to have “space” provided by a tank that’s full ...and a tank that’s NOT full will suck humid air into it every night...having been filled only to 95% (which I doubt the average owner can determine with any accuracy anyway)
FILL your fuel tank with stabilized fuel (adding the stabilizer either as it’s being filled or putting the stabilizer in FIRST then adding the fuel...not dumping the additive in afterward.).
STORE your boat in an area which experiences as small temperature variations as possible. If you don’t have an air conditioned shop (that’s a joke) then store it indoors, out of direct sun if at all possible. If you must store it outdoors then COVER your boat to provide as much shade as possible to the system which will help reduce temperature extremes.

Six months later when boating season re-opens the fuel will still be serviceable and you’ll be fine. (And you’ll have avoided all the hazards of handling and disposing of large amounts of fuel... which carries a lot more danger than properly stabilized, perfectly useable fuel safely stored in your purpose-designed boat fuel system.)
It’s as simple as that.
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Re: Gas - storing over winter

#8 Post by Marc K » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:50 pm

I cannot count the number of times that I have seen two and three year old non-ethanol gasoline, fire right up and run strong in fuel injected engines. I don't recommend storing it that long, but it's tough to argue with success. :lol3

Having a large external water separator/filter can help eliminate the most common fuel problem - water. Yesterday was 91F here. Last night, we hit 42F. We are heading back into the 80's, then an overnight of 39F - Common sense would say that condensation was occurring in my tanks that have air in them.

Unless I'm headed on a really long cruise, I typically run two 12 gallon portable tanks. We boat pretty much all year - so aged fuel isn't
an issue for us. I do store around 50 gallons here, all of it treated with Stabil - even though it gets rotated through our vehicles, riding mower, generator and boat.

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Re: Gas - storing over winter

#9 Post by Steiner » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:34 am

Personally since I tow my boat to/from the lake, I fill it on the way home every single trip and put in marine Stabil every single time (we have ethanol free 87 and 90 readily available).
I have a fuel data manager so know pretty much how much it's going to take for dosing but before then pretty much knew withing a gallon or two based on watching the hours used for the trip.
Every time I fill up my five gallon yard cans with ethanol free 87, they get marine Stabil in them.
An ounce treats ten gallons, so it's fairly cheap to do...about seven cents a gallon using the quart bottle.....and it's nice to ALWAYS have treated gas in the entire fuel system and not worry about it.
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Re: Gas - storing over winter

#10 Post by Bryden24shp » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:36 am

I fill everything up and use Stabil. I fill up with 91 octane Off Road (ATV fuel) No ethanol. $2.49/gallon vs $1.69 for 87 with ethanol. Kwik Trips have it around here. Makes the RZR run like a raped ape!
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Re: Gas - storing over winter

#11 Post by ksks » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:07 am

Thanks for the responses guys!
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Re: Gas - storing over winter

#12 Post by bansil » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:26 pm

With life the way it has been??...no time to winterize, I just go down to dock and fire here up every month and go for a cruise, engine drains when down and water doesn't freeze deeper than 1/4 inch...grab 2 beers, pickup last years hidden trash and go...it is a bitch to run her when it is...running her means air temperature drops like 30*...that sucks lollol...I need servants/hired help....ugh...mo' money :mrgreen:



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Re: Gas - storing over winter

#13 Post by Marc K » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:18 am

We will hit close to 80F today - not a cloud in the sky. I know where I will be after 4:00 PM. :biggrin2
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