First Time Toon Buyer - A bit overwhelmed!

[SnakeByte]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forums, but have gained a lot of information reading everyones posts. Thanks for all the great info.

That being said, I believe all the info has overloaded my thought process, which is bad given I'm pretty obsessive when it comes to researching larger purchases.

I'm looking for a little help in ensuring I make the right decision on my purchase.

Here's my pertinent info:

1) Live in Madison, WI with a chain of three freshwater lakes as our boating location.
2) Our main use will be cruising with the ability to tube as an alternate activity.
3) Will typically be 3 (wife, 3-year old daughter, myself) + up to ~4/5 guests).
4) Will be in a slip all summer and then up in dry storage through the winter. Won't be trailered.
5) Our budget is around $25k. We had in our mind $20k, but quickly jumped to $25k after our first dealer visit.
6) Based our visit to the dealer, we feel 20'-22' is the size we're looking for.
7) We probably like the standard L-shape seating the best...nice mix of available seating and storage.

Here are some of my thoughts.

1) Have decided a minimum of 90HP is required. Focusing on Mercury as that's what the main marina pushes/services.
2) Have leaned towards Harris because of the quality / known brand, but also because of the Costco purchase program.
3) I always lean towards used, but have found it challenging to find what I'm looking for and have it save me substantially over a new purchase. If buying used, I feel like 2010 is as far backs as I would want to go. I just want to make sure when I turn the key it starts. I'm not mechanically inclined and would need to have it serviced by a professional. We've found a new Harris that my wife and I both like, I'm just getting cold feet with all the options, used vs new, etc, etc.

Now my exact questions:

1) I'm trying to convince myself that buying new boat at $25k is not painful from a depreciation standpoint as buying a $50k boat. Like I said, when I look at used pontoons, it feels like they are still ~$20k for something that is 4 years old. $22k for something that is 2 years old (with minimum 90HP). Then again, it so hard to compare apples to apples with so many options. Obviously it's for me to decide, but is it really worth $2-$4k to get a 4 year old used boat? Even that boat will depreciate some, so it's not like buying used is going to shelter me from depreciation, it's just a reduced amount of depreciation on a lower original cost.

For the next questions, here is the toon I'm looking at:
http://www.skipperbuds.com/Page.aspx/di ... ntory.aspx

2) The new boat that I'm looking at is a 2014 Harris 220CX with 90HP Merc. MSRP is $26,780 + $1648 (freight and prep). With the Costco purchase program, the price becomes $23,203 + $1648 (freight and prep) = $24851 + Tax. I'll also get another $500 back from Costco later. So it looks like it's knocking about %15 off retail. I can't tell if that's a good deal or not as I just have no experience buying a pontoon in this price range (or any price range!). The dealer indicated he couldn't beat the Costco pricing. Should I look elsewhere and just negotiate with a dealer and forget the Costco piece? Or is 15% off retail reasonable on a $27k boat?

3) Now taking into consideration the price on this new boat and the features, should I still spend more time/effort on finding a used boat that is similar or just buck up and buy new?

4) This boat has both the aluminum skin and the lifting strakes. Should I really care about this? With a 90HP motor is it really providing value? Just an example of something that makes it hard to compare when looking at other new/used boats.

5) The boat doesn't have a changing room or porta potty. My wife doesn't seem to think the changing room is a huge deal, but we both feel a porta potty is a must have with our 3 year old and children of our guests. Are the porta potties that you buy with the boat any different than what I can buy off Amazon? My only thought is that they are somehow more integrated, preventing them from tipping over or something? I've not actually seen what they look like in a pontoon. Should it be a requirement or are after-market options the same or sufficient?

6) I'm all about Go Big or Go Home, but I'm also trying to be realistic on budget. Will the 90HP be sufficient for adult tubing on a 22' toon? Maybe that's where the skin and strakes might actually help? I've also heard that incrementally going to a 115HP is not worth the negligible gain. I think that puts me going to a 150HP which just doesn't feel like it lines up with my needs. Any thoughts?

Sorry this was so long and appreciate all of you who have gotten to this point. I do appreciate everyone's input in helping us make a smart purchase.

-Jason
Madison, WI

[Bamaman]

I was unaware that Costco has a boat buyer program, and that's very good. Despite being in a large lake region, there few used pontoons for sale in your area. First thing you need to do is forget about depreciation and profit margins. This is not the car business. Always try to buy local, but don't hesitate to go 50 or 100 miles if your local dealer's unwilling to do a fair deal. And widen your search for other popular brands of boats--Bennington, Premier, South Bay and many others.

You're treading on a precarious price range @ $25K. Yes, you can find a boat for that price, but many new boats are priced with 50 hp motors--boring. FYI: The price difference between a Merc. 50 and a Merc 115 hp is about $2400. There are some 20' S model Benningtons the could be upgraded to 115 hp for under $25K without a trailer. Now, they'd perform well.

May I suggest you go into Boattrader.com and filter your search for a pontoon (left column) from $15,000 to $32,000. And put the search to be within 200 miles of your zip code. Sort your choice (at the top) by Price--low to high. You can find which dealers in your general vicinity are the big players in the retail, and which dealers have left over 2013 models that really need homes. You need to be as informed as possible on what's in the retail market.

I'll keep this short:
If Skipper Bud's is not willing to take the Costco deal, find the next closer dealer that will participate. All good dealers do a substantial long distance and/or internet business and will quote delivered prices on the phone.
If you're into water sports, go with the maximum rated horsepower for the boat. A 90 horsepower would be fine on a 20' boat, but a 22' boat would do better with 115 hp.
Lifting strakes is not an expensive and they're very much preferred on any boat of 90 hp or more.
Those with porta-potties don't use them as they've got to be cleaned. And they're generic items. People just jump in the lake.

Good luck in your search.

[smoker62]

I have a nice 2012 Southbay with a 115 and trailer Id let go for 22k. And its an hr north of Madison .

[smltooner]

Welcome to the club and good luck with your decision.
You have come to the right place for reliable info and opinions.

[SnakeByte]

Bamaman,

Thanks for the detailed reply. You have some good advice there.

Just a follow up, related to the Costco discount, you say "that's very good". Are you referring to the 15% off MSRP as being very good?

Also, I want to clarify, the Costco program works by working with the manufacturer, in this case, Harris, but the actual sale is still done through the dealer. That price is through Skipper Bud's, via the Costco program. So the sale is actually done through my local dealer, which is really nice. He just indicated that the Costco price was the best route, he couldn't do it better. So they're actually working with me, which is a good thing.

I take another look at boattrader and see what I can come up with, especially considering the other brands you mentioned.

Thanks again!

[SnakeByte]

I have a nice 2012 Southbay with a 115 and trailer Id let go for 22k. And its an hr north of Madison .

Hey Smoker,

Thanks for the reply...nice seeing another Wisconsin person.

Why are you selling?

Does it have skin/strakes? Any other options?

Unfortunately, I don't need a trailer and wouldn't have a place to put it.

This is also where I run into the dilemma. I can get a new 2014 22' with nice options for $24k, do I really consider used for $2k less than a brand new?

Thoughts?
-Jason

[smoker62]

I have a nice 2012 Southbay with a 115 and trailer Id let go for 22k. And its an hr north of Madison .

Hey Smoker,

Thanks for the reply...nice seeing another Wisconsin person.

Why are you selling?

Does it have skin/strakes? Any other options?

Unfortunately, I don't need a trailer and wouldn't have a place to put it.

This is also where I run into the dilemma. I can get a new 2014 22' with nice options for $24k, do I really consider used for $2k less than a brand new?

Thoughts?
-Jason

I added my own underskinning.060 aluminum sheeting, I also have the upgraded stereo , ski tow bar, aft vinyl. I am selling to upgrade to a tri with a 250 . The same boat around here goes for more than 24k in a Southbay without the trailer. Good luck with your decision.

[maddad]

Welcome! My 2 cents... I've got a 20' with a 60hp Yamaha 4 stroke, so comparing how I boat to what you plan to do, I'd;
- Go 24'. When you throw all the stuff, people, cooler, etc, you'll be glad you did
- 150hp. That 90hp or even the 115 with a loaded boat, won't really get that tube up quickly
- Others may give better advise here on Lifting strakes, but they help with speed, so I'd get them even if I had a 150 hp.
- Skin it! I can feel the waves hit underneath mine, reduces your speed and I just don't like it pounding my boat. I'm doing my own skinning this Spring.
- We have the changing room, with a portable toilet with it's own battery water pump for the flush. It works great. The weight of 2 gallons of fresh keeps it put.
- To hit the price range with my recommendations above, you'll most likely be looking at used. Not alot wears out (maybe I've just had good luck). They're out there, you just have to keep looking.

[SnakeByte]

I added my own underskinning.060 aluminum sheeting, I also have the upgraded stereo , ski tow bar, aft vinyl. I am selling to upgrade to a tri with a 250 . The same boat around here goes for more than 24k in a Southbay without the trailer. Good luck with your decision.

Hey Smoker, do you have it listed on Craigslist by chance? There is a similar one in Necedah.

What seating configuration do you have? Color? Hours on motor?

[SnakeByte]

Welcome! My 2 cents... I've got a 20' with a 60hp Yamaha 4 stroke, so comparing how I boat to what you plan to do, I'd;
- Go 24'. When you throw all the stuff, people, cooler, etc, you'll be glad you did
- 150hp. That 90hp or even the 115 with a loaded boat, won't really get that tube up quickly
- Others may give better advise here on Lifting strakes, but they help with speed, so I'd get them even if I had a 150 hp.
- Skin it! I can feel the waves hit underneath mine, reduces your speed and I just don't like it pounding my boat. I'm doing my own skinning this Spring.
- We have the changing room, with a portable toilet with it's own battery water pump for the flush. It works great. The weight of 2 gallons of fresh keeps it put.
- To hit the price range with my recommendations above, you'll most likely be looking at used. Not alot wears out (maybe I've just had good luck). They're out there, you just have to keep looking.

Hey maddad,

Thanks for the info and your thoughts.

Was your portable toilet aftermarket? If so, which one?

I'm now definitely leaning more towards used. I think it will allow me to get a bigger motor, similar features and maybe even save me some money.

I think the key is just being patient, it's not like I can use it now anyway, given it's in the teens outside! Although it's probably more work to find one, used feels like the right way to go.

Thanks again,
-Jason

[smoker62]

I do have it on Craigslist . I was offered 23500 trade with my trailer on a 25 Manitou with a 250 etec HO but I really like a Crest Carribean I found with a 250 Verado Pro. Of course the trade was based off a 58,000 dollar boat. The crest I am looking at is loaded, double bimini , cp3+ , frig, amped stereo, yada, yada . Listed at 70,000 yikes. Dealer is at 56 right now.

Let me know what your thinking , I can work with you.