Cranking the engine

[Rhinohio]

My motor is a 50 HP EFI Merc four stroke and have a question. Normally it takes just a tap of the starter to get it to light but yesterday, on one occasion, it didn’t start right up. I had been on a long run cruising about 4800 rpm and then a lengthy stop for lunch. After we finished eating, I bumped the starter as usual and it didn’t fire. A couple more times the result was the same. Then I cranked the motor for maybe 2-3 seconds and it fired up and ran normally for the rest of the day. After all of the ethanol related problems I had when I first purchased the boat, I still don’t have a high confidence of the motors’ reliability. Put over 25 hours on it a couple of weeks at Lake Cumberland without a glitch so I thought I had all of the problems fixed. Am I being too anal about this or should I expect the need to spin the starter on occasion.

Thanks,
Mike

[dockholiday]

Probably nothing but know what you mean about the ethanol thing. Got hit for about 300 bucks when the toon was new due to ethanol. I keep it loaded with marine stabil now, but still a little gun shy when anything sounds a little diff or doesn't crank right away.........
doc

[Drago]

I've always used street gas in ours. Except for the first start after a couple of weeks which seems to require around 2-3 seconds, the Yammi 225 always fires up in about one second or less. I do not have any idea what is not the norm but would think anything over 3 seconds of cranking might cause some suspicion. Ours has the big Yamaha 10 micron water separator filter that I replace after about every 100 hours. It's amazing what small crud and crap will pour out of that filter along with discolored fuel.

[GregF]

If it is in fact a one time fluke, forget about it and go boating. My 60 EFI merc was a bump of the key thing too and I may have had it do what you are talking about 2 or 3 times in 10 years.
I wrote it off to a bubble in the fuel system that dropped the fuel rail pressure or something.

In that regard, the new Yamaha is a lot slower starting and was from day one. It takes 2-3 revolutions of the crank. I assume they drop the fuel rail pressure when you stop to cut down on the classic "making oil" problem. I always believed the making oil was an injector leak down problem when you stopped.

Mercury was always "what making oil problem?" They gave me lame excuses or tried to sell me something I didn't need and that wasn't a warranty part.

[rancherlee]

I'm thinking since it was after a lengthy run that your engine was pretty warm and may have vapor locked just a touch and it took a few seconds for the fuel to get to the injectors. My Johnsuki 4 stroke sometimes takes 2-3 seconds to fire, other times its instantly.

[LocoCoco]

...I bumped the starter as usual and it didn’t fire. A couple more times the result was the same. Then I cranked the motor for maybe 2-3 seconds and it fired up and ran normally for the rest of the day...

Do you by chance turn the key first to the "on" position and wait a second or two to let the fuel pump build pressure? (Assuming the Merc has an electric fuel pump). I always do that with my 'Zuk and cars.

As GregF said, if it was a one-time fluke, I wouldn't sweat it.

...I assume they drop the fuel rail pressure when you stop to cut down on the classic "making oil" problem. I always believed the making oil was an injector leak down problem when you stopped...

I read somewhere that making oil was simply condensation accumulating in the sump. It naturally gets evaporated out when the motor runs hot enough, but motors that are mostly run at idle (ie. pontoon motors) run cooler making them susceptible to the phenomena.




LC.

[ronb]

but motors that are mostly run at idle (ie. pontoon motors) run cooler making them susceptible to the phenomena.

Not my pontoon baby... unless you idle around 3-4k...

FWIW, when I start my Merc 90 2-stroke after being parked for a week, it cranks about 3-4 times and makes a nice little blue cloud as it clears out the 2 cycle oil that has accumulated in the cylinders/block.

Since I am new to the whole boating experience I asked the mechanic that worked on my motor last what is a good winterizing practice, fogging/draining/oil changes (and yes, he laughed at me for the oil change question on a 2 stroke) he said all you do is put in some fuel stabilizer and run it empty, then there is a way to 'trip' the 2-cycle oil pump to inject additional oil into the cylinders and presto, done. (do we have a good winterizing how-to thread around here?) So I would ASSuME that the 2 cycle oil pump has the ability to inject a little 'extra' as the motor is shutting down that might cause the "making oil" scenario.

-ron

[LocoCoco]

...So I would ASSuME that the 2 cycle oil pump has the ability to inject a little 'extra' as the motor is shutting down that might cause the "making oil" scenario.

-ron

You're mixing up 2-strokes with 4-strokes. "Making oil" is where water (though someone mentioned gas too) makes its way into the oil sump in the crankcase and overfills it past the "safe line" on the dipstick (worst-case is you hydrolock the engine which is bad). 2-stroke crankcases don't hold oil so "making oil" doesn't exist on them.



LC.

[ronb]

You're mixing up 2-strokes with 4-strokes. "Making oil" is where water (though someone mentioned gas too) makes its way into the oil sump in the crankcase and overfills it past the "safe line" on the dipstick (worst-case is you hydrolock the engine which is bad). 2-stroke crankcases don't hold oil so "making oil" doesn't exist on them.



LC.

gotcha.. told you I was a newb.. like when a head gasket leaks on a car and you can drain water from the oil pan. Makes sense now, in the winters here if you do not let your car get up to the right operating temperature, you get this nasty white/brown milky goo on the inside of your motor from condensation building up. But usually that is not enough to actually raise the oil level in the motor...

-ron

[GregF]

Making oil on an outboard is gasoline contamination.
There are many theories about what causes it. Few solutions.
My Merc 60 got better with age. The Yamaha does not seem to do it.

I still think it was injector leak down when I stopped.

[lakerunner]

but motors that are mostly run at idle (ie. pontoon motors) run cooler making them susceptible to the phenomena.

Not my pontoon baby... unless you idle around 3-4k...

FWIW, when I start my Merc 90 2-stroke after being parked for a week, it cranks about 3-4 times and makes a nice little blue cloud as it clears out the 2 cycle oil that has accumulated in the cylinders/block.

Since I am new to the whole boating experience I asked the mechanic that worked on my motor last what is a good winterizing practice, fogging/draining/oil changes (and yes, he laughed at me for the oil change question on a 2 stroke) he said all you do is put in some fuel stabilizer and run it empty, then there is a way to 'trip' the 2-cycle oil pump to inject additional oil into the cylinders and presto, done. (do we have a good winterizing how-to thread around here?) So I would ASSuME that the 2 cycle oil pump has the ability to inject a little 'extra' as the motor is shutting down that might cause the "making oil" scenario.

-ron

When you run carb's dry you run very lean a few seconds which could cause more cylinder wear

[ronb]

When you run carb's dry you run very lean a few seconds which could cause more cylinder wear

my Merc is EFI/DFI (no carbs) and I already told the mechanic that I would be bringing it in, because the process while sounding fairly straight forward also sounded like a shade tree guy like myself could really screw it up (2 cycle oil into the cylinders that might cause hydrolock possibly?) I've already replaced this powerhead once this year, and once is enough.

Really long explaination of 'making oil' on this thread... by a user named W.W.
http://www.walleyecentral.com/forums/sh ... p?t=166546


-ron