Another Speed Question

You know the drill..

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BoatCop
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:55 pm
Location: Parker, AZ

Re: Another Speed Question

#16 Post by BoatCop » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:03 pm

rancherlee wrote:Being over 20' long (and not a mono hull) it's not against Federal law to over power the boat, and the majority of states have laws based around that so check local laws. As far as insurance goes It's not too hard to get a policy writen and be covered as long as you give them the facts and tell them what size outboard is on the pontoon. That said a 115 is going to only give you 1-2mph more over a 90 on a pontoon. Going from a 60 to 115 will give you 6-7mph and double your fuel usage @ WOT, is it worth it?
Somebody out there actually knows his stuff. :lol:

And even then, the requirements are on manufacturers and dealers for construction standards and not so much on the end-line consumer. Another factor to consider is whatever warranty the manufacturer may still have in effect. Putting a higher than rated engine will most likely void any warranty claim for cracks, splits, weld or other structural failures of the logs or engine pod. Not an issue if the boat's out of warranty, though. However some boats, like Crest and Bennington, have lifetime structural warranties.

Engine size is based on a lot of factors, but stability is the primary one. My work boat, a 27' Crest Tri-toon with the upper deck, is rated at 150 hp max, while the same boat without the upper deck can go up to 300 hp. When I ordered it, I called Crest and asked if I could get it with a higher HP. They said that due to the increased (higher) center of gravity with the upper deck, they would absolutely not put anything above a 150 on it.

From my Coast Guard days I remember going through the training on how they determine HP requirements and the process is amazing. The manufacturer has to submit detailed plans and test data. It's reviewed by USCG Marine Engineers to verify the data and often even physically tested before they will issue them the certification to put it out to the public. Although rancherlee is correct that it's only required on outboards under 20', nearly all manufacturers do this to get certification, due to their own liability and insurance requirements, plus AYBC and NMMA requirements.

As far as the Lake Patrol giving grief, or seizing boats, it depends on how the various State Laws are written. For example, Arizona's law on overloading only applies to persons or cargo, with no mention of engine.
Alan
2012 22' Sun Tracker DLX Party Barge w/Merc 90 EFI 4 Stroke
2016 Chevy Tahoe
2009 GMC Sierra
2001 Jeep TJ Wrangler
1999 Southwind 34L MH
2 little Basset Hounds

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rancherlee
Posts: 580
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:59 am
Location: Eveleth MN

Re: Another Speed Question

#17 Post by rancherlee » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:05 pm

BoatCop wrote:
rancherlee wrote:Being over 20' long (and not a mono hull) it's not against Federal law to over power the boat, and the majority of states have laws based around that so check local laws. As far as insurance goes It's not too hard to get a policy writen and be covered as long as you give them the facts and tell them what size outboard is on the pontoon. That said a 115 is going to only give you 1-2mph more over a 90 on a pontoon. Going from a 60 to 115 will give you 6-7mph and double your fuel usage @ WOT, is it worth it?
Somebody out there actually knows his stuff. :lol:

And even then, the requirements are on manufacturers and dealers for construction standards and not so much on the end-line consumer. Another factor to consider is whatever warranty the manufacturer may still have in effect. Putting a higher than rated engine will most likely void any warranty claim for cracks, splits, weld or other structural failures of the logs or engine pod. Not an issue if the boat's out of warranty, though. However some boats, like Crest and Bennington, have lifetime structural warranties.

Engine size is based on a lot of factors, but stability is the primary one. My work boat, a 27' Crest Tri-toon with the upper deck, is rated at 150 hp max, while the same boat without the upper deck can go up to 300 hp. When I ordered it, I called Crest and asked if I could get it with a higher HP. They said that due to the increased (higher) center of gravity with the upper deck, they would absolutely not put anything above a 150 on it.

From my Coast Guard days I remember going through the training on how they determine HP requirements and the process is amazing. The manufacturer has to submit detailed plans and test data. It's reviewed by USCG Marine Engineers to verify the data and often even physically tested before they will issue them the certification to put it out to the public. Although rancherlee is correct that it's only required on outboards under 20', nearly all manufacturers do this to get certification, due to their own liability and insurance requirements, plus AYBC and NMMA requirements.

As far as the Lake Patrol giving grief, or seizing boats, it depends on how the various State Laws are written. For example, Arizona's law on overloading only applies to persons or cargo, with no mention of engine.
Lots of research on my part as my pontoon is "over powered" mine came rated
For 50hp due to the flimsy transom which my 360# 70hp 4 stroke bent. With the optional beefy transom it would have been rated for 75hp. Instead of finding a beefy transom, and my
Pontoons manfuacture long gone, I added a 3rd pontoon with an integrated transom. I also added an extra cross member and tube to frame supports. Minnesota law is a touch stricter in that ALL outboard powered craft 20'-0" and under require plates instead of the mono hull under 20' length the Coast Guard requires. I then used the AYBC H-35 form to calculate my safe HP and Persons capacities. Which comes to 115hp and 11 persons, so my 70 is plenty safe and passes the "WOT, crank the wheel 1/2 turn, 90* turn" test with ease.
1988' Kennedy 20' "Haley's Comet"
Rebuilt 2016 with 25" single strake outer tubes and a 25x23" straked U-tube
2003 Suzuki DF140 - Yamaha 9.9HT kicker - 39.1@6300rpm

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jimrs
Posts: 1662
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:05 am
Location: Elm Grove, La

Re: Another Speed Question

#18 Post by jimrs » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:52 am

I have never had anyone check the data plate on the boat for H.P. or max load.

I think that you will need to re-enforce your transom for a 115. You will gain some speed might even see 30mph but you will also use a lot more gas.

I have thought about getting more hp on mine but cost is a big factor. More motor cost a bunch and adding a third toon is also a lot of money. I will stick with my 90 and go as fast as it can somewhere around 24 to 25.

Speed cost no matter how you do it.
2001 22' Tracker Regency (sold)
2001 Mercury 90 HP (sold)
Elm Grove, La
Lake Bistineau

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GregF
Posts: 3323
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:47 pm
Location: Estero Florida

Re: Another Speed Question

#19 Post by GregF » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:41 am

If you are talking about motors in the same block class (like 75, 90, 115 Merc) the weight is the same and fuel economy will be the about same until you start using the extra horsepower.
In my 70 Yamaha, I get great economy until I start exploiting the extra horsepower I have over the 40. You can almost see the gauge move at WOT. I would probably be doing 16 or so with the 40 and I can get close to 24 with the 70.
1974 Harris
70 HP 4 stroke EFI Yamaha

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OK Toon
Posts: 627
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:03 am
Location: Broken Arrow, OK

Re: Another Speed Question

#20 Post by OK Toon » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:54 am

jimrs wrote:I have never had anyone check the data plate on the boat for H.P. or max load.
We got our pontoon just over a month ago. In the Oklahoma Boaters guide it mentions about finding a Lake Ranger and getting a safety inspection. So on our first trip out, I stopped by the marina and had a Ranger do our inspection. One of the things he asked was about the data plate and what it lists as max load and max engine. He wrote those on my ticket (just a warning since I didn't have the registration papers on the boat -- I hadn't received them in the mail yet).
Kim and Steve
2003 Lowe Suncruiser Trinidad 222
2003 Yamaha 90hp 4-stroke
2008 Toyota Tundra 5.7
Spend most of our time on Lake Eufaula

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BobG
Posts: 1842
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 6:24 am
Location: Gilpin County, CO

Re: Another Speed Question

#21 Post by BobG » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:18 am

GregF wrote:If you are talking about motors in the same block class (like 75, 90, 115 Merc) the weight is the same and fuel economy will be the about same until you start using the extra horsepower.
Amazingly, the 75, 90 and 115 are all the same motor - same displacement, same bore and stroke, same weight.
So tell me why they don't all cost the same price?
Because the marketing people wouldn't allow THAT to happen.
2012 Tahoe 24' Fish-n-Fun Tritoon, with Mercury 115 HP 4-Stroke
"Trine SS Cape" (Trying 2S Cape)
Add a battery: viewtopic.php?t=13546&p=105893#p105893
I'm not a liberal, but I play one on this site.

naked_rider
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 8:12 am

Re: Another Speed Question

#22 Post by naked_rider » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:00 am

so i have a mercury force 120 what type of prop do i need? according the RPM gauge i am at 4100 rpms and the gauge goes up to 5800 rpm it is a 24ft pontoon.

dockholiday
Posts: 2916
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:32 pm
Location: Lake Oconee, Ga.

Re: Another Speed Question

#23 Post by dockholiday » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:42 pm

naked_rider wrote:so i have a mercury force 120 what type of prop do i need? according the RPM gauge i am at 4100 rpms and the gauge goes up to 5800 rpm it is a 24ft pontoon.
Probably a 13p would be a good start.
doc

naked_rider
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 8:12 am

Re: Another Speed Question

#24 Post by naked_rider » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:21 am

ok thanks for the info i will look and see what i have on there now if i can find it.

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