"Marine wire" - necessary? Also, crimp connectors.

[badmoonrising]

And that's a problem...

[GregF]

It's a problem if you don't swap them over but that is a 10 minute operation to save hundreds of dollars.

I haven't looked lately but I imagine a "marine" alternator is $300 or more for your Mercruiser and you can get a regular Delco for less than a hundred.
I used to rebuild them back in the olden days and the parts were more like $25-30 depending on what was bad (brush set and bearings, maybe a diode set). I was paying $15 for an aftermarket Delco style stator.
As long as you get the screens in right, they are "marine".

The screen set was a few bucks but hard to find, if you were starting from scratch with nothing but an old car core or a rebuilt. I always looked for "marine" parts when I could find them, even if they were rusted up solid. The screens are usually stainless and still worth recovering.

[badmoonrising]

Anything labeled "marine" is usually a ton more $$ than non-marine, even though there isn't a whole lot of difference.

[GregF]

I feel wire is the same way.
There are only a few companies making wire and only a few kinds of insulation and that is why so many conductors have multiple ratings stamped on them. Your basic wire on the spool at Home Depot is rated THHN/THWN/MTW

That means it is 105C, wet location, Oil/Gasoline resistant, low flame, low smoke, dual jacketed, U/V protected. I am not sure what else you would want it to be.

You certainly want stranded but if it is not in a place that is constantly flexing, you don't want fine stranding. That makes it more susceptible to corrosion.

I am also dubious about tinning making that much difference. It is done to make wire easier to solder. I doubt a couple microns of lead is going to have a significant difference in corrosion resistance. Copper is already pretty corrosion resistant in fresh water. That is why they used to make rain gutters and roof flashing out of it.
In salt water all bets are off. If it gets wet, it is going to fail, tinned or not.
That is why I would never run an open conductor under my boat. I put it in conduit, home runs all the way from the dry part of the console to the equipment being served. No splices along the way.

BTW have you guys seen the new mold deal? It is a 2 piece mold you put around a splice and pour it full of some kind of goo that hardens into a sealed bullet.

[RonKMiller]

3M makes heat shrink tubing that has a heat activated glue inside - it seals butt connections absolutely water tight. About double the cost of regular heat shrink tubing, it also has a thicker wall. The glue dries hard.

[GregF]

I found that splicing deal I was talking about

http://www.spliseal.com/Order.html#molds1

[guy48065]

I found that splicing deal I was talking about

http://www.spliseal.com/Order.html#molds1

Another use for hot-melt glue

When work is slow the machinist sometimes asks if I have any "government jobs" for him. I think I now have one

[BoatCop]

The biggest concern with wiring and connections on a boat is the potential for sparks. Insulation on "marine" wire is resistant to oil, fumes, UV, heat, etc. All the things present in a marine environment. As was said, automotive or household wire insulation will crack, check and fail when exposed to those things. That creates bare spots which can short and spark and cause an explosion and/or fire if gas fumes are present. (fuel and water hoses, too)

The same applies to crimp connectors. Crimp fittings will eventually come loose when constantly exposed to the heat transitions (hot/cold/hot/cold) and vibration common on boats. That will also result in sparking. Soldered and sheathed connections are the only kind accepted.

While wire running under the deck of our pontoon boat isn't as critical as what would be in an engine compartment, there is still the distinct possibility of the wires shorting out on the aluminum (metal) framing or pontoons, which could cause untold problems down the line in the wiring loom.

Coast Guard standards don't differentiate between types of boats when it comes to build requirements. So what would be required in a inboard daycruiser also applies to outboard pontoons.

I've investigated dozens of boat fires over the years and, more often than not, they can be traced back to non-marine components, including wire, hoses, starters, alternators, distributors, carburetors and fuel pumps.

Non-marine components are definitely cheaper, but compared to a burned out hulk that used to be a boat, they're worth every penny.

[badmoonrising]

^ Yep. Even for liability reason alone, I'd never use anything on any of my boats not rated for marine use. Even if you modify a component, you still have safety issues that'll bite you in the ass if those components cause a fire or injury.

[GregF]

How will it "bite you on the ass"?

[badmoonrising]

You use a non-marine starter. Said non marine starter ignites gas fumes in your bilge. People who get hurt learn that you wanted to save a few dollars, ignoring safety issues and used a non marine starter. You get sued. Your insurance denies any claims because you were deemed negligent.

The end.

If you are a marina that installed said non marine starter, you are now a defendant in a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

Injured party now owns your marina.

[GregF]

We already talked about starters and alternators and I agree.
We were talking about wire that the owner installed on a pontoon boat.

[BoatCop]

We already talked about starters and alternators and I agree.
We were talking about wire that the owner installed on a pontoon boat.

Non-approved wire and connectors used on a metal pontoon boat. Connectors fail or wire insulation fails and grounds out on hull (direct ground for electrical system). Wire overheats and causes fire of combustible components or equipment on the boat, which leads to a fuel tank explosion and injury or death to passengers, either from the fire/explosion or the forced evacuation of the vessel.

Marine Surveyor or Accident Investigator discovers the cause of the fire and places negligence on the owner who used non-marine type wiring and connectors.

Injured party/family sues boat owner. (They WILL win!) Insurance denies coverage due to owner's negligence.

Owner ends up living in a cardboard box.

All because the owner wanted to save 5 bucks in supplies.

[badmoonrising]

Yep. You forgot BC that Greg knows all...just don't get on his boat. Lol.

Greg, go to a marina with an electrical problem, hand them a spool of automotive primary wire and tell them you'd like them to use it. See how far they stick a boot up your ass.

Nothing not rated for marine use ever goes on my boats. Period.

[GregF]

I know enough to put overcurrent devices on my conductors (fuses/breakers) for exactly that reason.

Boat cop assumes that a 105c, oil/gasoline resistant, double insulated, U/V protected, wet location THHN/THWN/MTW is somehow inferior to a similar wire that has "marine" stamped on it.
I never said the cheapest wire on the shelf at the auto parts store was OK, I was pretty specific.
I also said I would not run unprotected conductors around the boat. I ran mine in conduit. If it burned completely up, the fire would be contained.