MSRP Expectations

[Capt. Dan]

We are now down to dealing on the two boats we are interested in. Bennington and Manitou.

I have found that with the Bennington prices out at $50,061 and the dealer is willing to discount it to $36,661 including my trade.

The dealer for the Manitou, which prices out at $40,900 will give me zero off MSRP and $3,000 for my trade, putting it at $37,900. He says he has no room to reduce off MSRP.

The problem is we like the Manitou more for our purposes, it has a much better layout for our purposes and is actually a good bit larger at 25'10" deck vs. 22'6" deck. However, I am having a difficult time thinking that the value is not what it should be with the Manitou. Is the MSRP just a game Bennington plays that Manitou does not or should I expect the Manitou dealer to deal?

[OldePharte]

It just maybe that the Manitou dealers don't deal. They may not have to. A couple of years ago, we wanted a Manitou and basically got the run around. He stated, he would deal, but would never, ever, put anything in writing. We couldn't justify the extra $$ at the time. So we went elsewhere.

[Capt. Dan]

I wonder if it's that Bennington inflates their MSRP to give dealers something to work with, even if its just customer perception.

[BobL]

There can be a lot of reasons....

Bennington could inflate their MSRP as a lot of boat companies (not just pontoon boat companies) do this. I am sure some of the Bennington owners will chime in with their knowledge.

Could be the Bennington dealer is high volume and has more margin.

Could be the Bennington dealer has a lot of inventory and is trying to unload it and sacrifice some profit.

Could be the Bennington dealer has some engine rebate or special incentives from the manufacturer. Are both spec'd with the same engines?

Could be the Manitou dealer does not need to discount.

Are some things included in the Manitou price and not the Bennington (i.e. is the price posted out the door or do you have to pay for inbound freight or rigging or xxxx?)?

[Capt. Dan]

Good points Bob.

Both prices are for 2015 models ordered from the factory.
Both are out the door, in the water, with bottom paint and fuel.

There may be some minor variations, but from what I can tell pretty comparable.

The Manitou is a much bigger boat, so maybe the dealer sees that as his value proposition.

I shared some of the Bennington information with him, but he was unmoved. I will see him at the upcoming boat show to see if he can elaborate a little.

I plan to go back to him with a counter that says if you are stuck on the boat price, how about some service considerations like 5 years of complimentary off season storage, spring and fall launch and haul out, power washing, after market installations, etc. These are all service only items that he may be willing to offer accommodations on.

[Strake]

It may be just the individual dealer also.

When we shopped for our 2015 which was factory ordered, the local Bennington dealer just wouldn't negotiate. He's got a stellar business, sells several top brands and has a top notch service dept. Nothing off..... and a year before (July 2013) when I approached on trading in our 2007 Sea Ray 250 SLX (loaded) I was offered a price 35% lower than I got this Sept (2014) trading in at the Sea Ray dealer, who I've dealt with for the past 5 years and always had good experiences. The Sea Ray Dealer also is the Berkshire Pontoon / Tritoon dealer..... discounted the new factory ordered boat significantly, gave me 35% more ( almost what we paid for the boat in 2010) on our trade, AND I happened to catch a Yamaha factory warranty special, where Yamaha gave me 3 more years of full warranty (for a total of 6 years).

When I saw that the Bennington for a very comparable model was going to cost me $12k more for the boat and engine....... not even counting the whole trade difference, it was a no brainer.

[rdeterman]

If you like the Manitou call another dealer and get a price from them. Just to use to compare with. Who knows maybe the dealer your working with is right on the money.

[Bamaman]

Bennington is very good to show the MSRP's on their websites, and I've never known any dealer to sell their boats for list price. Their MSRP's are more of a relative, comparative price than an absolute price. But I've also never seen any other boat manufacturer to be so transparent in pricing.

Both boats are of very high quality and at the top of my list--along with 3-4 other manufacturers. It's nice to know that you cannot go wrong with either boat.

Manitou dealer once talked to me at length about the company marketing operates. Dealers go to a big Fall Order Writing meeting and submit their stock orders. Manitou that year was offering an ETEC 150 hp HO for the same price as a standard 150 hp, and a $750 option package was free. They also offered in floor center toon storage for about 1/2 off. If you can acquire a Manitou that was ordered at Fall Order Writing, you may get a better deal than if a boat is ordered later in the year. Manufacturers also throw out some other freebies to dealers that invest in going to boat shows--like an extended engine warranty or sales incentives.

Bennington operates somewhat of the same way, but I don't know details how they work. Due to their high tech welding machinery and large production staff, they're wanting boat orders straggled throughout the entire year. I suspect they have some discounts at Fall Ordering, and maybe additional discounts for Cash. My dealer mentioned he dropped his 4 other pontoon brands for another cash discount. Some Bennie dealers may pay slightly less than other dealers for the same boat.

If boat deals are apples vs. apples, it's the total deal that counts.

[ROLAND]

If I read your numbers correctly you're only talking about a difference of less than 1300 between the benny and the manitou... if it's the manitou you prefer I think you should make an offer to the manitou dealer that is the same as or slightly less than the price on the benny.... I'd be surprised if he lost a 37K boat sale over 1300 bucks.... it's kinda like buying a car, you have to be prepared to walk away. worst case scenario if he says no to your offer you can always agree to the manitou price if that's what you really want... Good luck!

[Bamby]

According to this site: See Dealer Costs it appears everything is marked up more or less 10K on all models. But who really knows where they get their numbers from?

[rdeterman]

Go on the Manitou website and "build a boat" that will give you a true MSRP. I highly doubt that Manitou is only 40k unless your looking at a very low end/small motor boat

[Friz]

Cannot resist this one shipmates - msrp is just what it states - MANUFACTURERS srp. There is no legitimate foundation for it. We are being sucked into a marketing technique. What the heck is it their business what a boat/vehicle is sold for other than a marketing mechanism to support their dealers. Manufacturers do not consign their vehicles to dealers - they sell them to dealers. As is done when purchasing a car/truck - request to see the factory invoice, what the dealer paid, negotiate from there. If they refuse to play ball, move on. 'No hassle, we don't negotiate" pricing is nothing more than a sales technique to get a fool and his money to part. Please don't forget, this is still horse trading.

[Capt. Dan]

rdeterman -- I have built both boats on their respective websites. We are looking at the base model Manitou Aurora with their VP tri-toon setup and an Evinrude HO etec 150. We also added vinyl/teak deck, and a couple other options. For the Bennington we are also looking at their base model, the SLX and similarly equipped and powered with the same engine it prices out as I indicated, about $10k more.

I think it's a combination of a more realistic MSRP/pricing strategy for the Manitou so that when people like me are price shopping online they can see a more realistically priced boat whereas the Bennington appears priced out of range. This may also leave the Manitou dealer with less room to drop the price off MSRP while the Bennington dealer can offer $10k off (with trade).

FRIZ--I get it, but it's how our economy largely works. Whether you are buying grapes at the grocery store, a new flat screen at Best Buy, clothes, cars and even houses -- there is a "retail" price and a "sale" price. Yes, it's all a game and the real value of a product is whatever the last person was willing to pay for it, but it is still a game we play. Yes, you can choose to walk away, or you can try to dig deeper as I am doing here to see what other people have experienced with particular brands so that we can better understand the driving factors behind a pricing strategy -- and then choose to make an educated decision.

[rdeterman]

So was the Manitou MSRP when you built it the same as what the dealer is offering? Also did you happen to call another dealer for a price on the same boat? That might give you a better idea of how the Manitou's are priced. If you like the Manitou better id go that route, the boats are priced about the same so choose the boat and dealer who you like best and enjoy your new Toon!

[rdeterman]

I just went on Manitou's site and built a Aurora VP boat with a approx $40k MSRP. I would call a few other dealers and see what that boat can be bought for. Paying MSRP for a new pontoon is almost unheard of. You should be able to get some sort of discount off MSRP even if that boat has minimal mark up.