Just hear me out...

[Cowracer]

Actually just looked at the math, 90hp is = ~65kw of power. The 3500$ battery back you linked to is available in either 7 or 10kw of storage, so you would only be able to use 90hp for about 6-9 minutes before it would be dead. I have nothing against alternative energies and I truly believe that we do need to make the switch someday but my someday is when my wallet says its OK! Possibly the best "alternative" for a higher HP pleasure craft would be a small 10hp diesel generator charging a battery pack that could supply 90 hp for 5-10 minute bursts and you wouldn't be "left in the dark" when the battery dies as you would still have slow speed propulsion while the battery bank charges back up. That's exactly the type of hybrid car I would want to purchase but no one builds one. A small efficient diesel generator + battery pack would make a sweet commuter car, and the Diesel would supply the heat needed up here in Minnesota during the winter.

The Chevy Volt is the closest. Its not diesel, but it is a true gas-electric setup as the engine never directly drives the wheels, it only runs the generator. Its actually a spectacular car, i was considering getting one, but I'm gonna get an Elio when they come out instead. Hard to beat 86 MPG and $6800 MSRP.

Tim

[BobG]

I'm gonna get an Elio when they come out instead. Hard to beat 86 MPG and $6800 MSRP.

Yeah, but that's basically a can-am with a shell. I mean it looks pretty cool, but they're REALLY vague about specifics, like range, top speed, stuff like that. As far as I can see, it's a one passenger, unit. Will it get me through the 4,000 foot elevation change I go through every day on my commute to and from work? Will it go fast enough to safely use the interstate? Does it have any room for groceries?

[photonfanatic]

A small efficient diesel generator + battery pack would make a sweet commuter car, and the Diesel would supply the heat needed up here in Minnesota during the winter.

This was the next idea I was going to jump to. Tesla can make cars that go 300 miles just like any gas car, but that's a car. The cheaper Nissan leaf claims only 86 mile range, but its significantly cheaper than the tesla luxury speedster.

But volkswagan has designed a way better hybrid than the Prius. They have a 260 mpg hybrid. But IIRC they've only built 250 of them so far. Its basically an electric car, but it has a very small 2 cylinder diesel engine to charge up the batteries. So just like some of the Priuses, you go for as long as you can on electric, and then you turn on the generator. Capitalizing on the greater efficiency of the Diesel IC engine, and on its tiny size an very low fuel consumption. Imho, this could be the answer to a lot of transportation problems cause you can get an oil to burn in that little diesel engine from several other places besides just out of the ground. Fast food restaurants and plant farms being a couple of em. So it would cost you what... about $8 to go 520 miles? Seems well worth it to me.

So cowracer, how about that idea instead? Create a diesel hybrid boat? I don't really know how fast an alternator could charge those batteries. From what you described, I'm not sure if it could keep up with the demand from the electric motor. But in the case of pontoon boats, there may be some small advantage to be had, because they are a boat the moves around a bit less. The whole idea is to enjoy being in one spot. At least for me it is. Of course you'll move around some, but you're not just spending most of the time racing across the water like you are with some other types of boats.

http://www.plugincars.com/261-mpg-plug- ... 26507.html

And here's a little diesel, with more than 50% efficiency! Use something like this to turn your alternator on the hybrid boat.

https://gigaom.com/2012/10/17/liquidpis ... el-engine/

[Cowracer]

I'm gonna get an Elio when they come out instead. Hard to beat 86 MPG and $6800 MSRP.

Yeah, but that's basically a can-am with a shell. I mean it looks pretty cool, but they're REALLY vague about specifics, like range, top speed, stuff like that. As far as I can see, it's a one passenger, unit. Will it get me through the 4,000 foot elevation change I go through every day on my commute to and from work? Will it go fast enough to safely use the interstate? Does it have any room for groceries?

Range? It has an 8 gallon tank. Even if it only gets 60mpg its gonna go 480, which beats the snot outta anything in my fleet right now.

Top speed? claimed to be 100 mph. I believe it. The Can-Am has way worse aerodynamics, and gets about 127MPH outta 1300 cc. 100mph out of a 55hp 900cc engine is very reasonable.

It's a two passenger in a tandem set up, one riding behind the other. A blog I read said the space is comparable to a Mustang. Decent in front, a bit snug in the back.

I dunno about the elevation change, but I don't see why not.

will it go fast enough for the interstate. Sure. I figure it should cruise comfortable at 70 or so.

It has a hatchback design that will hold a set of golf clubs, it looks like 5-6 bags of groceries would fit fine.

It's not for everybody, but at today's fuel prices, compared to my trusty 97 Olds 88 it would pay for itself in just over 4 years. Compared to my Excursion, about 2 and a half.

Tim

[flossy2150]

One more thing to consider. Many here are making comparisons to automobiles or diesel electric ultra class trucks. The cars and trucks are able to take advantage of regenerative braking...basically reclaiming energy that is normally lost by using engine braking or braking at the wheels. Boats wouldn't be able to do this very well so you lose that advantage as well.

[BobG]

Range? It has an 8 gallon tank. Even if it only gets 60mpg its gonna go 480, which beats the snot outta anything in my fleet right now.

Top speed? claimed to be 100 mph. I believe it. The Can-Am has way worse aerodynamics, and gets about 127MPH outta 1300 cc. 100mph out of a 55hp 900cc engine is very reasonable.

WOW! I'm definitely interested! I looked on their web site, and it didn't even have a PICTURE of the engine, much less discuss it's size and power. Same with the gas tank size. They really need to learn a few lessons on revealing their products.

EDIT: Ooh! Maybe NOT!

http://carbuying.jalopnik.com/six-thing ... 1646776191

[photonfanatic]

Not real sure why that thing needs to exist. Honda had an 81 mpg car that actually had a backseat. I used to see one on my drive home, one street down from mine. I guess they sold it. But they were around. Honda quit making them, no idea why. Nowadays they have their hybrid civic which sucks compared to that early version.

EDIT

Guess I was wrong. Guess its back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSmmM5NdW88

[JBO]

So cowracer, how about that idea instead? Create a diesel hybrid boat? I don't really know how fast an alternator could charge those batteries. From what you described, I'm not sure if it could keep up with the demand from the electric motor.

That wouldn't be feasible. You need to crunch the numbers on how much power the current technology of batteries can hold plus how fast a small generator can recharge the batteries. If you use your boat like a boat (and not trolling) an electric motor would burn through way more juice than a small generator could replace. The technology currently available doesn't make it feasible, unless you want to putt around at 5mph.

You are comparing apples to oranges, with your original link of the Tesla powerwall vs the Tesla CAR battery packs. The car battery packs cost about $12,000. Tesla has stated they are expecting to reduce costs of their battery packs about 30% in the next few years I believe, after building their new Gigafactory. Even then, a $9k battery pack is pretty pricey...and it has far less energy stored than a tank of unleaded fuel.... Your average 40amp wall circuit will take 10-12hours to fill up the Tesla battery pack.

Electric motors on a boat are GREAT...for a trolling motor.

[JBO]

Check out these prices of the electric boat motors and the battery costs/weight:

http://regennautic.com/wp-content/uploa ... -20152.pdf

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I assume the functional battery life of those as a primary source of propulsion is likely 5-7 years, max.

[BoatCop]

Someone once described the act of boating as constantly driving up hill.

The amount of energy/torque required to just get 1 or 2 tons of fiberglass and metal moving from dead stop is tremendous. As is the amount required to maintain any degree of speed through the water.

If you have any question, look at the degree of fuel used as one goes through the throttle range.

On a 250 Verado pushing a 20' Boston Whaler, clutch in idle is around 1.5 GPH. To get the boat on plane that surges to 24+GPH then settles down to 10.5-11 GPH at most economical speed @ 3,900 RPMs. For each 100 RPM increase, you can increase GPH 2-3 gallons. WOT and you're up in the 24 GPH range again. And that's constant fuel consumption. It doesn't settle out like a motor vehicle does as surface water tension acts as a brake and there's no rolling momentum effect.

I suppose it would be feasible in the future, but we're just not technologically advanced enough to have the battery storage ability nor electric motor efficiency to have a practical electric powered boat that would go up against our gasoline powered vessels, as Tesla and some of the others do to gas motor vehicles.

[NonHyphenAmerican]

I'm not an engineer, I'm really pretty ignorant.

However, would a "hydrofoil" set up reduce the drag and make an electric motor more efficient in boats?

[photonfanatic]

Here's an electric outboard the built on mythbusters. Is there any way to embed video here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EV2qq2-Lck

[pond tuuunes]

I havnt read allthe post, but have you considered the weight of the90 hp electric motor? Its easely looked up, but im sure it heavy. JT

[photonfanatic]

Its a lot lighter than the IC engine that is already on there.

[JBO]

Its a lot lighter than the IC engine that is already on there.

And the battery weight? And the battery life? And the battery cost?