Another Winterizing Question

[FloterBoter]

chill'n, i used to run food grade a/f through the cooling system while fogging and killing the engine. but after reading what many old timers write on various marine mechanics sites, i gave up on that and just drain it. air doesn't freeze and crack blocks. a dry block doesn't rust. but it is important to probe the drains with a wire brush to make sure they are fully draining.

[chill'nthemost]

Floater, I have found that the people that have "been there, done that" are usually right on the mark. After reading your post, I won't use be using RV anti- freeze anymore. I would like to know why you shouldn't fill the block with anti-freeze. I'm not doubting your info, just want to know the reasoning. On the rust issue, is it because the block is sealed that it won't have any effect on the iron? Thanks for the info

[badmoonrising]

I've always felt safer filling the block with antifreeze, have been doing it to my Starcraft for 12 seasons and the PC for 4 without problems. My Mercruiser manuals for both engines says to do so. I also can't see having a problem with draining the block and manifold and like Floter says, make sure the drains are clear and makes sure they do in fact drain.

[FloterBoter]

yeah, it's really important to probe the holes with a wire or a small wire brush to make sure they drain.

the old timers over on the iboats forums talked about not getting all the passages to have a/f in them, and then one pocket of water could freeze and crack the block. of course, i was pretty anal running almost 5 gals of food grade a/f through the muffs and then fogging to kill it just before the a/f ran out, so i never had that problem. as for not rusting, i don't think the block is really sealed. i do close the drains (or try to remember to), but air can circulate in through the exhaust circuit, up through the elbow, through the manifold and in. in other words i believe some humidty can get in there. but the surfces will have dried by then, so only condensation could cause rusting. the guy who owned the boat before me (for 10+ years) never used a/f. when i pulled the original manifold and elbow to clean them with a wire brush and some solvent, all i got was a little black carbon from the exhaust, no rust.

anyway i agree with bmr that i always felt good having a/f with a rust inhibitor inside there. but not all of the elbow is filled (it runs over the inner elbow) and when you shut down, i'm sure some air bubbles gather inside the block. so there are parts without rust inhibitor against them. in the end, it came down to this--the a/f thing was a PIA, because i'm always hoping to get one more weekend afternoon warm enough to go boating, so i end up winterizing in late october or early november and usually am freezing my ass off as the sun sets and i'm not done yet. many of the really smart old timers are saying don't bother with a/f, and they've been winterizing multiple engines every year for many decades, so screw it, i'd rather do something else with my time.

i've also pulled my engine a couple of times now, and take the outdrive off every year, and it's really not a big deal once you've done it. so i figured, you know, if i really f*** this up, i can pull the cracked block, transfer the bolt ons to a rebuilt and drop her in for not very much money. my old girl is going on 40, so her time is coming. but i've been wintering dry for 2 or 3 years now with no problems at all. but i still fog with marvel mystery oil every year and then have to change out the spark plugs in spring.

[bassn386]

I guess I'll throw my two cents worth of opinion in here. When I had my 94 Evinrude it had a specific input for fogging the cylinders. Made it real easy.
When I bought my bass boat with a 200 Mercury Optimax the mechanic told me that all I needed to do was to put fuel stabilizer in the tank, run the engine until it reached normal operating temps to make sure the stabilizer was in the gas line to the motor. Nothing else.
He also recommended using SeaFoam instead of Stabil, which I've done. SeaFoam is more expensive than Stabil but I've done some reading and it will protect fuel with ethanol added for up to a year. The rate of SeaFoam to store fuel is one ounce per gallon. I use it in both boats as well as my lawn mower, string trimmer and leaf blower.
Here at Lake of the Ozarks, most marinas now only carry non-ethanol fuel (91 octane), but I still add stabilizer.
I run one boat (runabout with stern drive) about 50 hours a year, the other (the bass boat) has more hours on the trolling motor than the big engine. I get the lower unit lube changed about every 100 hours of operation or every other year, whichever comes first. I also have the impeller changed at about the same interval. The one time i forgot to have the impeller changed at that interval on the runabout it let me know by going into the "limp home" mode ahd having to take it to the marina!

[GregF]

Impellers are funny things. It seems the more you use your motor the longer they last. I have had 2 last a cumulative 2848 hours. I am on the 3d now since 2002.
I have had neighbors blow one after coming back from a summer up north with far less than 100 hours on them but a couple years old.

1000 hour impeller




1848 hour impeller

[Rooster368]

For you guys running Antifreeze, are you using DI water, Tap water (city), or well water?

I have been told to only use DI water in my 50:50 mixes. City water has chlorine and flouride added, along with minerals and salts; together these increase the lieklyhood of corrosion and building of mineal deposits on your sensors.

Well water is a big NO-NO due to the high FE and salt concentrations.

[badmoonrising]

I start the motor, warm it up then connect my winterization tank with 4 gallons of antifreeze in it. I'm on well water but I run the winterization tank dry so it's mostly antifreeze. This is what my Mercruiser manual says to do.

[jimrs]

There are many opinions and of coarse they are all valid. I always got rid of gas left in my tanks before winter. I had a old friend tell me that was the right thing to do as I had metal tanks. He said that plastic would keep gas fresher longer due to not having as much condisation as metal. I have found this to be true. I keep gas in plastic jugs for up to 2 years for my weedeater and chainsaw. I have left gas in my boat for over a year with no problems. I do unhook the gas and run the carb dry with all engines even the lawnmower.

When I had a in and out drive I did just like BMR and ran it full of anti freeze. I never let the block just sit. Car engines rust on the inside of water jackets while being driven and so do boat engines. So without being full of water they will rust more. I don't care what you do just do something to prolong its life.

[chill'nthemost]

OK, stupid question. I've always added anti freeze by manually filling the block through hoses until fluid runs out the block plugs. I'm sure it doesn't fill all the water jackets. I guessing dropping a hose off the "muffs" into 4 gals. of anti-freeze would pump fluid into the whole cooling system?? So do you guy's use a piece of scrap garden hose from the muffs into to the bucket of anti-freeze?

[badmoonrising]

You have to place the container so it's higher that the water intake (gravity feed). I use the winterization kit from west Marine:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1006&hilit=winterization+tutorial

Kit comes with everything needed.

[chill'nthemost]

Thanks Ed

[ROLAND]

Hey guys, need your input. The toon I have now is only a year old, and it happens to be the first boat I've ever owned so I have a question with regard to winterizing. When I first got the boat I asked some of the guys at the boat dealership should I service the boat at about the time I'm going to put it up for the winter, or should I just put it up and have it serviced before I take it back out in the spring... The answer "then" was to service it before storing the boat for the winter... Well a couple of weeks ago I was loading my boat up out at the lake and I ran into three of the guys from the dealership... same question, different answer... they said that since I store my boat indoors ( and because we live in louisiana ) just to make sure all the water was drained out of the motor and then have it serviced in the spring. So which is correct. It's a Yamaha 75 4 stroke... also, on the question of "fogging".. I"ve read where you don't need to fog 4 strokes, and i've read that you should. Is there not a definitive answer as to what is the right thing to do? from a laymans point of view, I would think that servicing the boat in the spring would be the way to go since what harm can the old "oil" in the motor do as long as the motor isn't being run... Then in the spring, fresh oil, plugs or whatever and you're good to go.. but then again, if I knew the right answer I wouldn't be asking you... appreciate your input guys... oh, by the way, I had it serviced about 2 months ago for the 10 hour service. Just threw that it so you would know when it was last in the shop. Thanks again.

[Parasympathetic]

OK, stupid question. I've always added anti freeze by manually filling the block through hoses until fluid runs out the block plugs. I'm sure it doesn't fill all the water jackets. I guessing dropping a hose off the "muffs" into 4 gals. of anti-freeze would pump fluid into the whole cooling system?? So do you guy's use a piece of scrap garden hose from the muffs into to the bucket of anti-freeze?

Yep, that's what I use. Short is better so it doesn't have to pull so hard. (OK, insert the usual jokes here)

I use a 4 ft section of garden hose hooked to the muffs and the other end in the bucket. And like Ed said, get it up in the air. I set it on an milk crate.

[badmoonrising]

Roland, you want to change the oil at the end of the season. Used oil is pretty acidic and you don't want it sitting in your crankcase all winter. Plugs and filters CAN wait until spring, but I do it all at the end of season so in springtime it's a cleaning and quick launch with nothing else to worry about.

As for fogging, better safe than sorry. I've had boats since I was in my teens, 2 strokes and 4. Always fogged them and never had a problem. On the other hand, if you don't fog and the piston rings rust to the cylinder wall, you are looking at an engine rebuild.

Lower unit oil, same thing. End of season. If there's water in it you want to know before it freezes or if the fluid looks abnormal. Better to find out at the end of the season rather than waiting until you are ready to launch and discover a problem.

Also any chips in the paint on the lower unit - touch them up or you'll get corrosion. It's more of an issue out here where it's moderately salty, barnacles, etc.

Trailer hubs, same thing. You don't want water contaminated grease sitting in the hubs all winter either.