Gray water discharge on pontoon houseboat.

[boatbuildertom]

I am working on plans for a 26 foot x 8.5 ft. wide houseboat.
My question is-- Can I discharge my kitchen sink water and my bathtub water into the river? I plan on cruising the Mississippi River, the Ohio river, and the Tombigbee waterway. I will have a porta-potti for the black water. Thanks for any answers. Tom

[lakerunner]

All the cities do so why not

[GregF]

The short answer is probably "no". I know there are federal laws against commercial vessels discharging gray water. I suppose a call to the USCG would yield the best answer

[Bamby]

Though I can't just pull up the specific link I know gray water is allowable on the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers and I'd assume the Tombigbee waterway would be legal also. You can Google up whats in bold below for more information if you can understand the legal mambo-jumbo jargon on the specific standard site.

"Sewage" is the other operative word here, CFR 140.3 defines as sewage as, "human body wastes and the waste from toilet and other receptacles intended to receive or retain body waste." No matter how sewage may be defined in any other context, that is the complete definition of sewage as it pertains to marine sanitation. As such, sewage does not include garbage, trash, bath water, galley water, food, oil, gasoline or anything else. It is human body waste, period, and sewage is the only thing at issue in marine sanitation laws—except on the Great Lakes where "gray water" (which is defined as "galley, bath and shower water") from commercial vessels only must also be held.

[Parasympathetic]

I thought we had a new guy here that used to be a uscg inspector.
Could of been one of the anatomy sites I visit, but I'm pretty sure it was here.

[chill'nthemost]

Can't tell you where I read it, but I'm sure in Oregon you can discharge gray water. I remember about 5 years ago I got rid of my gray storage and installed a hose from the drain straight to the water. Can't be worse than fish poop.

[FloterBoter]

i'm a student of anatomy, too!

[GXPWeasel]

It's not the gray water, so to speak that I would be concerned with, but the soap in the gray water. I'd ask a local Water LEO or USCG to be 100% certain. Or, you could use the waste gray water, as the black water holding tank. Meaning that when you flushed the toilet, you would use used gray water, and not fresh. This would cut down a little on the water you would have to store, but may be a whole new problem in engineering altogether.

[badmoonrising]

Not on the Chesapeake. ZERO discharge from boats. Pretty sure that's the case in all federal waters and a certain distance off shore.

[Bamby]

About No Discharge Zones
The Clean Water Act (CWA) prohibits dumping untreated sewage anywhere in United States territorial waters. Human waste from boating activities must either be stored for land-based disposal, or treated prior to discharge according to standards set by the U.S. Coast Guard. These treatment standards are designed to minimize visible floating solids and to significantly reduce (but not eliminate) the concentration of fecal coliform bacteria and any other pathogens potentially associated with human waste. For waters considered especially sensitive to contamination from bacteria and pathogens, the Clean Water Act provides states the opportunity to petition the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for a special designation - one that bans the discharge of any human sewage, whether or not it is treated according to USCG standards. Waters that receive this designation are called No Discharge Zones (NDZs). To secure this designation for a given water body, the state must demonstrate a) the need for special protection, b) the availability of alternatives to overboard discharge (i.e., pump-outs), and c) local stakeholder support.

Source: http://www.deq.virginia.gov/tmdl/ndz.html As resource see link below, also attached to this link as reference link.

Vessel Sewage Discharges and No Discharge Zones

Section 312 of the Clean Water Act sets out the principal framework for domestically regulating sewage discharges from vessels, and is implemented jointly by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the U.S. Coast Guard. “Sewage” is defined under the Clean Water Act as “human body wastes and the waste from toilets and other receptacles intended to receive or retain body wastes”, and includes graywater discharges from commercial vessels (as defined at 33 U.S.C. 1322(a)(10)) operating on the Great Lakes. Under section 312 of the Clean Water Act, vessel sewage is generally controlled by regulating the equipment that treats or holds the sewage (marine sanitation devices), and through the establishment of areas in which the discharge of sewage from vessels is not allowed (no discharge zones).

Another source from the first link posted: http://water.epa.gov/polwaste/vwd/

The only restriction on gray water discharge italics above I could find referred only to the Great Lakes on only concerned commercial boats. Maybe somebody snookered you with some bad info BM.

[GregF]

The guys over on rec.boats will have a good answer but you will be wading through a lot of politics

I popped up the question there. I will sort through the answers and get the real "poop".
I am sure we don't care if it is Bush or Obama's fault that the water is gray

[GregF]

The consensus over on rec.boats, with 2 who should know, is there is no universal law against pleasure boats discharging gray water but some local ordinances may apply.
For our Chesapeake bay folks, there is supposed to be an ordinance in Herring Bay and around the approaches to Deale.
I would also watch out for an over officious water cop who says "that ain't right" without actually having a law to cite.

[badmoonrising]

Maryland's zero discharge law as far as I know did not pass...but it WAS to include grey water discharge. My bad.

[RonKMiller]

I think there is quite a bit of responsibility involved to at least attempt to protect water resources - regardless of whether or not you are allowed to dump gray water. The old camping axiom of "leave nothing behind but foot prints" is easily adapted to "leave nothing behind but a wake" when boating. It's simply the right thing to do.

I plan on carrying a "Blue Boy" 32 gallon tank under my trailer when my "trailer on a toon" project is done - just like I currently do when land camping. It has wheels and even when full is relatively easy to roll. A cup of 50% bleach and 50% water goes into it when I hook it up to keep any organic reactions from starting up - even when it's warm.

I'll definitely route all kitchen waste water into it and dump it appropriately along with black water when full. If you're miserly with water use that is a couple of weeks of washing dishes, brushing teeth, etc. for two people. We always wipe plates, pans etc. with paper towels prior to washing to remove debris. I can completely clean up the kitchen with a CUP of hot water and a couple of drops of Dawn or Lemon Joy. Both detergents are far superior to bargain brands when it comes to grease cutting and rinsing clean.

Shower water is another issue. As long as you are using a fully biodegradable "marine" soap with no phosphates I see no difference between that and taking a swim. Soap with phosphates is bad ju-ju since algae thrive on it, but it is increasingly be taken out of consumer products completely.

Dumping any gray water - or taking a shower and dumping - in a beach side mooring or marina is totally unacceptable and really bad manners.

blue boy.jpg (105.96 KiB) Viewed 6350 times

[Bamby]

Maryland's zero discharge law as far as I know did not pass...but it WAS to include grey water discharge. My bad.

You're not bad BMR, from what I could gather the zero discharge has passed and is in fact law, it's just that gray water from boats are exempted. They are actively enforcing businesses and housing from discharging both sewage and gray water into the water.

I think there is quite a bit of responsibility involved to at least attempt to protect water resources - regardless of whether or not you are allowed to dump gray water. The old camping axiom of "leave nothing behind but foot prints" is easily adapted to "leave nothing behind but a wake" when boating. It's simply the right thing to do.

Shower water is another issue. As long as you are using a fully biodegradable "marine" soap with no phosphates I see no difference between that and taking a swim. Soap with phosphates is bad ju-ju since algae thrive on it, but it is increasingly be taken out of consumer products completely.

Dumping any gray water - or taking a shower and dumping - in a beach side mooring or marina is totally unacceptable and really bad manners.

Ron, you're also technically right and raise some very good points and hopefully your boating area allows enough conveniences that you can follow your sound environmental advise here. In the area I boat in it would be quite difficult and a hardship to say the least. I'd have to leave my general boating area and travel through two locks and an additional twenty miles to arrive at the nearest approved pump-out station to empty it. Is the carbon footprint involved or justified to avoid what amounts to maybe an ounce or two of soap into the river???

Now mind you we do deal with the porta-potty in the proper fashion by carrying and dumping it into available public facilities such as porta-johns located at various locations available in our boating area. Dealing with it is no big problem it's about forty pounds full vrs. your tank approaching three hundred pounds full.

The bigger environmental issue in our area is that many boaters refuse to either use or carry a porta-potty on their boats. Many just have a roll of toilet paper and stroll out of sight and make their respective dumps along the banks of the river. Their are actually times a person can be beached on the sandbar and smell the fragrance of "shit" rifting by in the wind while sitting on your boat. Many otherwise responsible clean boaters are guilty of the white mushrooms that can be observed along our nations waterways, a far more environmental impact issue than a few ounces of soap.